BOF Posted February 21, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, striker said: Bruce describing the turnover in players as an excuse is really starting to grate with me. If he thought that was destabilising the club before he arrived why do the same again when he was getting better results with the previous squad? He can't have it both ways and it smacks of desperation. Xia's silence is deafening at the moment. It might be grating with you, but that doesn't mean it's not true. And the players he bought in January were all in positions where we were crying out for improvements or depth. This thing is going to take time. There are no shortcuts. Someone (Bruce) is going to be here during the hard part, and may take the fall while we improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if they sack him soon. The last few weeks have shown him up as someone who seems absolutely clueless and, although I keep telling myself we won't go down because of the points difference, I am now wondering where the next win comes from? Kodjia, whether you love or hate him, is the closest thing to a goal we have. Last night he spent most of his time in the left back position. That's just mental. If you're not going to create anything for Hogan you might as well have a player up there who can do it all for himself, and Kodjia can do that. Taylor, on what I've seen so far, is in no way an improvement on Amavi. Same goes for Bjarnason when compared to Adomah and Johnstone when compared to any of our other 'keepers. After going in at half time a goal down and, with them losing Gayle to injury, we should have come out second half with a new look to us because we never looked like scoring in that first half. He should have changed it but, not only did he not change anything then, he waited until we were two goals down and way too late to make any difference to the game. It was almost like he didn't want to try to get the game back. I've got no doubts he will be gone and he can only blame himself for that. It's just a matter of time before Dr Tony sees enough. The question is; do we get a new manager in now - may help us back to safety, start getting the winning feeling back, which brings much needed confidence and, gives him chance to appraise the squad before summer arrives. Or, do we change in the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2017 He's got to go. Got to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, BOF said: It might be grating with you, but that doesn't mean it's not true. And the players he bought in January were all in positions where we were crying out for improvements or depth. This thing is going to take time. There are no shortcuts. Someone (Bruce) is going to be here during the hard part, and may take the fall while we improve. I think you've misunderstood - If Bruce thought big changes in personnel would unsettle the team why make them? just bring in a few and have gradual change instead of wholesale change. I'd have more sympathy if he had flagged up the risk beforehand instead of moaning later - if he had said "We're bringing a few in, I think we will see a downturn in performances intially but in the medium term it will benefit us" then people might think he has a plan Clearly he had no idea that these changes would see our form go into freefall and it just looks like an excuse - we go again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) What I saw last night i saw a Newcastle team that I was not impressed with, but they grafted off the ball better than us,particularly second half. i saw a Villa team that acquitted themselves well in the first half i saw a villa team generally concede most aerial ball....very concerning. I saw a Newcastle team who closed us down, but a villa team that only did that in the first half i saw Jedinak make a difference until he faded i saw a villa team struggle to find simple passes to their man I saw Hourihane and Lansbury a shadow of their previous selves I saw a Kodjia that looked a level above most on the field I saw a Chester and elphick who lack dominance i saw a Hogan that is not in his comfort zone and also looks a shadow of himself. I saw a newcastle team who will struggle in the prem on that showing. We have nothing to fear getting out of this league......all we have to fear for is ourselves.....we look like a team that would lose, if there was no opposition there. ps we are not losing to teams with superior technical skills.....we are being out battled. Edited February 21, 2017 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, VillaCas said: I think you've misunderstood - If Bruce thought big changes in personnel would unsettle the team why make them? just bring in a few and have gradual change instead of wholesale change. I'd have more sympathy if he had flagged up the risk beforehand instead of moaning later - if he had said "We're bringing a few in, I think we will see a downturn in performances intially but in the medium term it will benefit us" then people might think he has a plan Clearly he had no idea that these changes would see our form go into freefall and it just looks like an excuse - we go again Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with you, the argument would most likely be to get those changes and unsettling out of the way now when our season is dead anyway as opposed to dealing with them next season and risk derailing our season before it even started. Dr X's comments would seem to back up that train of thought. I imagine the result is worse than they expected though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, PieFacE said: He's got to go. Got to. So tell me what happens when the next guy comes in and we end up with much of the same?....because there really is no white knight. sometimes, you have to stop running.....and stand up and fight. we have been running away from reality for 6-7 years, we have to stop and fight our way out of this.....as unpalatable as that seems. Edited February 21, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, TRO said: So tell me what happens when the next guy comes in and we end up with much of the same?....because there really is no white knight. sometimes, you have to stop running.....and stand up and fight. we have been running away from reality for 6-7 years, we have to stop and fight our way out of this.....as unpalatable as that seems. We aren't asking for a white knight though, we're asking for a manager who can win a game in the championship. Something even the stalwarts of Holloway and Warnock seem to be doing ok with much inferior squads of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, TRO said: So tell me what happens when the next guy comes in and we end up with much of the same?....because there really is no white knight. sometimes, you have to stop running.....and stand up and fight. we have been running away from reality for 6-7 years, we have to stop and fight our way out of this.....as unpalatable as that seems. Sorry TRO but this is just absolute emotive nonsense There are no guarantees but we can't continue with a man who gives you no reason to show faith in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TRO said: So tell me what happens when the next guy comes in and we end up with much of the same?....because there really is no white knight. sometimes, you have to stop running.....and stand up and fight. we have been running away from reality for 6-7 years, we have to stop and fight our way out of this.....as unpalatable as that seems. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that what Bruce has done is the best that any manager could do. I don't believe the club is cursed. I don't believe that we should stick with a failing manager just because. Football is a simple game, you set your team up defensively you're going to struggle to score goals. You can't get your team to do the basics right, you're going to concede goals. I don't believe this group of players have hit their glass ceiling, in fact, I see a team that has no idea how to express themselves, and that comes from the manager. A better manager can do better than what we've seen with Bruce. From the off with Bruce it's been negative, I like the idea of trying to win games rather than not lose them. We need a manager who's going to stamp an identity on how we play, I'm willing to give a manager time to do this even if it is shit to begin with. I was willing to give Houllier all the time in the world because I believed in what he was trying to achieve and the ideas he was putting across. I see none of that with Bruce, I see a man who doesn't believe even he knows what needs to be done to turn things around. Edited February 21, 2017 by PieFacE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think it's obvious we need to reach rock bottom before we can build again. We have not reached rock bottom yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanwesty88 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 56 minutes ago, striker said: Bruce describing the turnover in players as an excuse is really starting to grate with me. If he thought that was destabilising the club before he arrived why do the same again when he was getting better results with the previous squad? He can't have it both ways and it smacks of desperation. Xia's silence is deafening at the moment. My take on this was at the time we didn't appear to be in any danger, so signing these players would give them more time to settle in for next season. Now that we are on a terrible run it does come across as that he is contradicting himself. I'm generally happy with our new signings but we need to play a better system - one with more natural width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I think it's obvious we need to reach rock bottom before we can build again. We have not reached rock bottom yet. So you think we've got to go down another level first or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said: We aren't asking for a white knight though, we're asking for a manager who can win a game in the championship. Something even the stalwarts of Holloway and Warnock seem to be doing ok with much inferior squads of players. I actually have a certain respect for Warnock, always gave had, I like his honesty and his passion for the cause.....but I liked that in Steve Bruce to. There is no certainty that NW or DS will turn this around in the timescale we all want...This team when they have had time together may naturally gel....irrespective of who the manager is. just about every pundit on the planet, says the same thing....Steve Bruce us the right manager, the project, need time. are they all wrong? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I actually have a certain respect for Warnock, always gave had, I like his honesty and his passion for the cause.....but I liked that in Steve Bruce to. There is no certainty that NW or DS will turn this around in the timescale we all want...This team when they have had time together may naturally gel....irrespective of who the manager is. just about every pundit on the planet, says the same thing....Steve Bruce us the right manager, the project, need time. are they all wrong? Yes - all wrong. It's the old pals club. You should know that TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, TRO said: .are they all wrong? I have no idea because those are opinions, the facts are that based on form/goals scored/league position we are infact one of the worst teams in the championship. To me this isn't acceptable regardless of what my opinion is or anyone else's for that matter, We've already had the LVG comparison where the vitriol towards him is similar to what Bruce is getting now. This is the perfect example to put some perspective on the situation, he was hounded out for not having a 70% win ratio in the premier league, Bruce can't even get a win in the championship with an equivalent budget, the fans aren't being unrealistic or unfair here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, TRO said: just about every pundit on the planet, says the same thing....Steve Bruce us the right manager, the project, need time. are they all wrong? The same was said for Sherwood, but it was painfully obvious to those who actually watched the games that he was out of his depth, I wonder how many of these pundits have been subjected to our last 8 games? I'm willing to bet not many. I'm also willing to bet that if this was Di Matteo, or Garde was still here from last season, the pundits wouldn't still have confidence in them like they do for Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, romavillan said: So you think we've got to go down another level first or what? I'm not saying that but I'm just saying we may have to spend a few years of doing absolutely nothing in this league before we improve enough. But relegation could happen, I mean just look at Leeds. We will not challenge next season I can guarantee you that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Most of us were happy when he arrived but now we ain't. Stability is the key and riding through the rough before we can see proper improvements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Sorry TRO but this is just absolute emotive nonsense There are no guarantees but we can't continue with a man who gives you no reason to show faith in him You are right, it is emotive, because it really can't be factual.Its just what I believe, you don't ,fair enough. There are no guarantee's either way.....no body's argument is anymore stronger, in the light that we have presided over a change of rakes of managers to no avail. but your call for him to go ,is emotive too and I guess if you don't agree, could call that nonsense too,to appease your argument. I guess RDM could be saying the same under his breath , I just needed time,but how many do we keep changing and adding to the disruption....its becoming carnage. All these managers are not clueless, thats just a throw away comment to mask over the frustration we all feel. We have to stop running.....and face up to the reality of where we have landed. Edited February 21, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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