mykeyb Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said: Unless we can find such a candidate, is there really any point replacing Bruce? If you boat is sinking do you only jump overboard to climb in a better boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, villa4europe said: i hate the managers dont get a chance anymore, fergie would have been sacked talk, he had 3 decent seasons with utd before the bad one and restructured half the club behind the scenes bruce has done nothing He took over a team with one win in 19 games and no away win in a year and then achieved promotion winning results in his first 12 games with 23 points so let's not forget that . this bad run since January is unacceptable but he deserves the next 3 games in my opinion to try and turn it around - he has made mistakes and bad ones at that and will know that this cannot continue - the players in this squad are massively under achieving as are the staff - we have 3 games now in a week which are all very much winnable - if he does not turn it around in those ga es then he can have no complaints . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, villa4europe said: i hate the managers dont get a chance anymore, fergie would have been sacked talk, he had 3 decent seasons with utd before the bad one and restructured half the club behind the scenes bruce has done nothing Fergie had 3 decent seasons before the bad one? - they finished 11th twice and 13th before flukIng an fa cup win in 1990 under him ! sometimes managers need time to sort things - we have 19 new signings this season - it will take time and I think he will need to show something in the next 3 games and then hopefully we can put this behind us and go onto a strong finish . If he fails to turn the corner in the next 10 days then so be it but let's get behind Bruce and the team and try and turn this around in these games ahead . seven points from these 3 games and the situation will look brighter once players regain some belief and confidence. Edited February 22, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: I'd go back to the foreign route. I wouldn't class Houllier or Garde as failures. Houllier under-acheived but was trying to get us to play a different style of football, it was never going to be easy straight away and the fans unfairly jumped on his back imo. Garde pretty much had no chance. I wish Garde had stayed to be honest. Garde was absolutely a failure. Only wins against a 4th tier side (at 2nd attempt), worst points in all of 2016 in Palace and relegated Norwich. Would've been better off keeping Sherwood who actually won games against decent sides in the Premier League. I agree with Houllier though. People love a good moan though and that Liverpool incident was enough for them. Edited February 22, 2017 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said: To highlight this, look at the two goals Barnsley scored from open play....apologies for the pics, I'm no Gary Neville...but this is so basic.....I really and truly expected Steve Bruce to sort this inept defending out as soon as he came in.... Look at Amavi's position for the cross. No pressue on the ball at all. Cannot stop the cross from 6/7 yards away. It's not even like he was trying to get there, he just runs alongside at that distance if you watch it back. Cross comes in, Baker doesn't know where the 10 has gone. Chester also 'closed' position, but can at least see the Barnsley 10...although too far away to defend him. Any communication you think? Note Hourihane's position relative to Baker and Chester Contact made on the cross. Baker and Chester haven't moved...Hourihane only player even attempting a tackle/block...he made up around 5/6 yards whilst the other two never moved. Look at Huttons body position in the corner there....is he aware of that Barnsley player behind him do you think? Shot on goal....at this point it is possible that Johnstone could of saved the shot (yeah right!!)...had he parried it away across goal....do you think Hutton even now knows there's a player behind him? It's staggeringly bad....no awareness whatsoever. One pic in build up to second goal: We have SIX players all looking at the ball...SEVEN if you include the keeper. Look at the far post, Baker no idea where the man is....if the ball had been lifted across to the far post, it's a tap in! Bar Amavi and Lansbury who are trying to close down, all of those other defenders, plus the keeper should be turned through 90 degrees...so their back is toward goal. This is entry level basic defending surely, or have I discovered a new rocket science? Sorry for the length of post and use of images, but if I can see this (and it's not a new thing)...WHAT THE HELL ARE THE COACHING STAFF DOING MONDAY TO FRIDAY? This is my new favourite post, I want you to have your own tactical analysis thread, I really enjoyed that, something that definetly needs to be looked at by the coaching team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: No more old guard type managers - up and coming young modern thinking continental is the way to go - Wagner or someone of that ilk. I dunno, I think MON'S counter attack tactic could be seen as quite modern, and I found it exciting, loved it when Villa were up for it and tearing teams apart at pace, shame he bought some crap (well comparably crap to where we were) players when if he had bought more wisely we would probably not be in the championship now, I mean Zat Knight?! Loved the majority of the team tho, Carew, Young, Downing, Barry, Milner, at a push Gabby, what an incredible midfield/attack we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Tommo_b said: I dunno, I think MON'S counter attack tactic could be seen as quite modern, and I found it exciting, loved it when Villa were up for it and tearing teams apart at pace, shame he bought some crap (well comparably crap to where we were) players when if he had bought more wisely we would probably not be in the championship now, I mean Zat Knight?! Loved the majority of the team tho, Carew, Young, Downing, Barry, Milner, at a push Gabby, what an incredible midfield/attack we had. Looking back on it now they were good times although I felt we under achieved considering the money spent - if only we had signed bent and not heskey we may have cracked the top 4 and none of these nightmare years would have happened 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Heskey, one of those players you can't believe your team has signed, much like Holt, and the managerial appointment of McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: He took over a team with one win in 19 games and no away win in a year and then achieved promotion winning results in his first 12 games with 23 points so let's not forget that . this bad run since January is unacceptable but he deserves the next 3 games in my opinion to try and turn it around - he has made mistakes and bad ones at that and will know that this cannot continue - the players in this squad are massively under achieving as are the staff - we have 3 games now in a week which are all very much winnable - if he does not turn it around in those ga es then he can have no complaints . What do you class as turning it around in the next 3 games? One win? Three wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, villarocker said: I am not saying this is the answer mate but, I think that Bruce can bring what you say we are needing - stability. You - and many others - have said that we need stability but Bruce could go a long way to bringing about that himself by stop changing the system and the players that he's fielding. Imagine being a right back at the Villa for instance. One week the player to your immediate left is Elphick and the player directly in front of you is Adomah. Next game you have Chester to the left and Adomah in front. Next game it is Chester to the left and Bjarnason in front - the combinations are endless all around the pitch. Midfielders look for Kodjia as a central striker one game and next game he's out on the left wing. Bruce needs to find his formation, train to that formation and settle on his first eleven to fill those places. Just go with it, win or lose, for a few games and see if the players can gain some kind of confidence and belief in what they are doing. I couldn't agree with you more VR but the form of these players,as fickle as that is, the niggles, the injuries, it all compounds the problem of changing it. I'm not saying its right but he is searching for his best team.....I agree though, its also compounding the problem....its is catch 22. However, when you are losing if you stay with a fixed team you are wrong and if you change it you are wrong.....so you are ****ed whatever you do. We just need a win, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: What do you class as turning it around in the next 3 games? One win? Three wins? Minimum of 5 points for me . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: you buy a bloke who's a succesful left winger, bruce asks him to play central midfield, right wing, left wing back, attacking midfielder but then the defence of bruce is that BB is not doing what he's asking? we've got the same look about us as we had under lambert, garde and sherwood, football is a very simple game and yet we dont seem to know what we're doing, might be because these players are lazy or not very good but changing the line up, formation and playing style every match is a bigger factor apparently its incredibly hard for us to find a manager who comes in says we're playing a certain formation and a certain way and then buys players who suit what he wants to do, bruce doesnt know what formation he wants to play or what playing style to use but just went and bought 3 players because they looked good for other teams he's the definition of clueless That bit, I have a worry about.....I am with you on that and I think most managers before him have done the same. I am genuinely not trying to make excuses for any of them but maybe they felt they hadn't got the time to spend to scout/check out the right players and plumped for that policy. I don't think for one minute these defeats will go unchecked and it would not surprise me if the majority on here get there way.....But something just tells me, that despite not being able to run with these results, we have to stop changing managers too.....not sure if and how that gets reconciled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: We need to bottom out before we can move forward again, I think most people thought relegation to the Championship would constitute rock bottom for us but I fear it is not. Man City, Southampton, Leicester, Norwich etc all had to get relegated to the 3rd division in order to rebuild, whilst the thought of Villa playing in the 3rd division depresses me greatly I can't help but feel that it's what we need. Not that I would recommend it, but we also had to build from the 3rd division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said: Bar Amavi and Lansbury who are trying to close down, all of those other defenders, plus the keeper should be turned through 90 degrees...so their back is toward goal. This is entry level basic defending surely, or have I discovered a new rocket science? Good post, and I agree with all of it except the above. No, as a defender or a keeper I would be facing the ball, not facing the attackers with my back to goal, in that position you've taken a freeze frame of.. If the ball came directly at you and you were stood side on to it you'd be in all sorts of bother sorting your feet or body out to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, mykeyb said: I do believe that he isnt happy with what he sees, he couldnt be, I think were my opinion differs to yours is that I dont think he knows how to put it right. He will continually change the starting 11 or the formation in the hope of finding a solution and I dont think that is where the issue lies although the constant changes probably make it worse. You are saying he isnt getting the reaction he wants from the players, they are not doing what he is asking...............four months in he still isnt able to imprint onto the team which up until Xmas was doing ok, his style, his method whatever you want to label it. That is a worry, how much leeway or rope do you afford a manager that cannot get the team to adopt what he needs them too? If you are right it doesnt strike me that it will suddenly be a quick fix, it may take too many games to get the team to change, we dont have the luxury of plenty of games since our complete and utter collapse in 2017 and thats what worries me most. he hasnt got time, Im not sure he has another 4 games let alone another 4 months. He may well be a very decent man, as a manager I think he is lacking some vital tools which will stop him from gaining real tangible success here. ok .....I value your opinion, but let me just say this....just one element picked at random from many from Tuesday night. Jed aside, we could not win an aerial ball anywhere on the field.....I find it hard to directly blame the manager for that......Thats players going for the ball with no heart, just "shadow boxing" to coin a phrase.....some of these have just had massive pay rises.....they should be fired up. some may say its only headers this is where you gain or lose ground and begin to find yourself under pressure, if consistently lose out like we did.....it sends out messages too.....soft underbelly.....they( the opposition) grow in confidence and put you to the sword. Thats whats happening in games in the first 15 minutes or so we start ok, get out muscled and can't find a way back in because the opposition have stolen the initiative. I understand the overall gripe about the style and all the technical stuff not being done.....but we can't get the basic/ugly stuff done. Ps If you can't win the ball.....you haven't got the ball to do anything with it.....it may sound a bit simple but its true......WE can't win the ball, we just chase after it. Edited February 22, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 One thing I do find strange is how or what little effect it has made on the teams that we have taken their best players from? strange one , that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Do you mean the January ones? I think its too early to judge results on those teams. Over a longer period of time you might see a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 hours ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: The Samba situation is a perfect example of a Bruce dropping another clanger and he knows it. Look at our defense, it's tiny! Chester, Elphick, Amavi, Bree, Richards - all sub 6ft! Only Hutton and Baker are of a reasonable height (not giants mind) and you can't rely on either because ones too injury prone and the other's a positionally inept waste of time. When we had Benteke and to a degree Gestede, we had a big guy we could bring back to help defend those situations. We don't even have that now (you could maybe argue Kodjia, but to a much lesser degree). Right now, i'd say Jedi is our only decent threat/defense aerially and that's pathetic. Ask any proper defender about the golden rule when it comes to defending long balls, corners, free kicks etc - DON'T LET THE BALL BOUNCE IN THE BOX. Newcastle was a prime example of what happens when you do. But how do you stop that happening with midgets (pardon the exaggeration)? We should have signed a big imposing centre half (and kept Gestede) but we didn't and now we're scraping the free-agent bin trying to rectify the sorry situation. I have had issue with the stature of our goal keepers and centre halves for some time.....its not everything, we all know that, there are some exceptional players not giants.....but at this level (with limited skills) its a big advantage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Sooner this is moved to non-football the better. This squad should be performing better. Performance is measured by results. Results are rubbish. Manager is responsible for performance. @TRO You make tons of valid points about the "man/men" quality of our squad/performances, but the manger should have them or demand that they do better. I simply don't see evidence for that happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Really good article by evening mails mat kendriCk here - Reacquaint yourselves with what Round said about the astounding level of due diligence that went into appointing Bruce: "The number one target on my list was Steve Bruce," he said. "When the manager search came back it was a 40-page document and the number one recommendation was Steve Bruce. "It was an excellent fact to back up our instinct and advise the chairman – this is our one to six from that 10. "In the end, we went with a recommendation to the owner. The owner made the decision and went with Steve." It would take something drastic - and by that I mean relegation - for them to say 'ah, sod it, get Dean Smith or Gary Rowett in'. http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-auditioning-keep-aston-12641326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts