Stevo985 Posted June 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2019 6 hours ago, DCJonah said: Only because smith got us promoted. Nope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Keyblade said: Of course there were positives and individual positive achievements during his reign but they don't change the fact that he was a failure overall. When you fail to achieve your main objective, what's the point of talking about your smaller victories when they didn't lead you to achieve the desired outcome anyway? There were positives to Tim Sherwood's reign too for example. He had us winning games and playing exciting football. He also got us to an FA Cup final. But it soon became apparent that he was a gobshite charlatan and he ended up playing a major role in our disgraceful relegation. All of his so called positives became irrelevant in hindsight. They didn't lead up to anything significant other than ultimately abject failure. And yet you very rarely hear people reiterating "yeah but he did some good". I think that's mostly because he's seen as a cockney know-nothing whereas Steve Bruce is a Nice Guy© and so his positives have to be constantly highlighted to defend him. Yet Sherwood has been nothing but respectful of our fans even after his sacking and still speaks of our club in glowing terms whereas Bruce has called us unintelligent and hysterical on multiple occasions. If I'm being frank, **** his positives. A small section , yes....He wasn't referring to me, that I am sure or anyone else who refrained from slagging him off.....but it was time to go, that I agree on. Personally I have never dissed Tim Sherwood.....I think Football clubs have varying levels of work that need doing (especially after our long period of demise) and some get a lot to do and not enough time to do it and others just need to tweak, it can be good fortune to them,to a degree.However, I fail to describe TS as you have , more a manager that never achieved as much as I thought he would, as for character assassination ....not for me. So referring to your first line ,I guess Biesla and Frank Lampard are failures. I would suspect their fans would not agree with you or the owners of Chelsea. Every Manager wants to win things, but they can't for a variety of reasons, not always just down to them, ask Rafa Benitez......If you fail to recognise any form of improvement, positives or pockets of success, like developing a young player in to something special, it bodes for a very frustrating time.....Most of our managers over the years, except since O'Neill, have added some form of improvement or strength to our club and I for one was grateful for that, Brian Little,John Gregory,Ron Atkinson,Graham Taylor etc...all did their bit. So If Dean Smith fails this season, all the positives he has presided over will be washed away in to insignificance? You certainly have a way of looking at things.....You do need a bit of luck in football to go with all the smart work, but its not always controllable or manageable. Edited June 29, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) On 28/06/2019 at 18:26, Keyblade said: I think it's the fact that he had a go at the fans that sullied everything he's done. Like if he left on an amiable note, I'm sure people would have been much more forgiving of his failings but he's been nothing but patronizing in his last year or so and tried to absolve himself of responsibility, constantly moaning about lack of funds when that couldn't have been further from the truth. Contrast that with say, Alex McLeish, who did way worse than Bruce but he took on 100% of the burden, even from Randy Lerner and was nothing but respectful and praisworthy towards the fans even when they were bringing out the scribbled bedsheets for him. You can see why people have a lot more time for him than Bruce. I reiterate.....Some of the fans.....But I have to concede it was ill advised for him to do that. Many fans I spoke to, had no bad words towards him and recognised his good bits,However very few I spoke to favoured his brand of football. I think as we speak, its universally accepted, Dean was the right move.....and those fans that promoted that, were right, in hindsight. Edited June 29, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Nope Well no surprise but i disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 34 minutes ago, TRO said: I reiterate.....Some of the fans.....But I have to concede it was ill advised for him to do that. Many fans I spoke to, had no bad words towards him and recognised his good bits,However very few I spoke to never favoured his brand of football. I think as we speak, its universally accepted, Dean was the right move.....and those fans that promoted that, were right, in hindsight. I get that you feel that you weren't part of the fans he was insulting so it doesn't bother you as much, but it's not like the fans he was insulting were doing anything other than criticizing him as a coach. When you say things like "we need to be wary of Forristieri (who was suspended)", you're going to come in for some stick...it's part of the game. You don't insult their intelligence, that's completely uncalled for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mantis Posted June 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) Sherwood is obviously worse than Bruce. I mean, Sherwood isn't even a proper manager tbh. Bruce is clearly out of date now though - just like O'Neill, Moyes, Pulis, Pardew etc Edited June 29, 2019 by Mantis 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Mantis said: Sherwood is obviously worse than Bruce. I mean, Sherwood isn't even a proper manager tbh. Bruce is clearly out of date now though - just like O'Neill, Moyes, Pulis, Pardew etc Mourinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Keyblade said: I get that you feel that you weren't part of the fans he was insulting so it doesn't bother you as much, but it's not like the fans he was insulting were doing anything other than criticizing him as a coach. When you say things like "we need to be wary of Forristieri (who was suspended)", you're going to come in for some stick...it's part of the game. You don't insult their intelligence, that's completely uncalled for. Him having a go at fans is pathetic especially since he got a lot of rope from fans. Didnt help his kids on socisl media Bruce was a pompous prick and if brought us up we be on way down soon enough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Him having a go at fans is pathetic especially since he got a lot of rope from fans. Didnt help his kids on socisl media Bruce was a pompous prick and if brought us up we be on way down soon enough We gave him plenty of time. After that first season of finishing 13th, we were happy for him to have a proper go at it. But Smith showed that finishing 13th after taking over in October actually wasn't very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 28/06/2019 at 19:29, Shropshire Lad said: I have the impression he’s well thought of at Hull and Small heath - probably a bit less so now at sha. He’s not well thought of at Villa & Sunderland. The other clubs he’s managed, I don’t know, probably not there long enough to have a good idea. It’ll be interesting to see where on the appreciation spectrum he ends up for Wednesday. My gut feeling is that it won't end well at Wednesday for him. He is most comfortable at a smaller mid sized club like Hull or Small Heath. Us, Sunderland and even Sheffield Wednesday despite a 20 year exile from the top flight, are much bigger clubs in terms of support and expectations. He is probably quite personable to the players but his transfer policy is always scattergun and I think the Championship has evolved quite a bit than 5-10 years ago when he got Hull up twice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) As much as I can’t stand the guy I reckon he will get Sheffield Wed to the playoffs. Won’t be pretty though. Edited July 1, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: As much as I can’t stand the guy I reckon he will get Sheffield United to the playoffs. Won’t be pretty though. it wont be as impressive as Chris Wilder keeping Sheffield Wednesday in the top flight 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: it wont be as impressive as Chris Wilder keeping Sheffield Wednesday in the top flight I actually thought I had accidentally wrote United but was too lazy and tired to come back to the thread and check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 29/06/2019 at 17:57, Mantis said: Sherwood is obviously worse than Bruce. I mean, Sherwood isn't even a proper manager tbh. Bruce is clearly out of date now though - just like O'Neill, Moyes, Pulis, Pardew etc No one said sherwood was better than bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, DCJonah said: No one said sherwood was better than bruce. yeah, to be fair Bruce isnt the worst manager we have had in the last 10 years by far, but thats more of an indictment of our poor manager choices than the fact he is a brilliant manager. (and the lack of backing Managers got post O'Neill transfer wise). Post O'Neill timeline (and pre Smith), personally i think Houllier had the best potential but was unfortunately cut short, Lambert and Garde had potential but didnt work out at all. I would say Sherwood, McLeish and Di Matteo would probably go down as worse managers for us than Bruce. Edited July 2, 2019 by MaVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, MaVilla said: yeah, to be fair Bruce isnt the worst manager we have had in the last 10 years by far, but thats more of an indictment of our poor manager choices than the fact he is a brilliant manager. (and the lack of backing Managers got post O'Neill transfer wise). Post O'Neill timeline (and pre Smith), personally i think Houllier had the best potential but was unfortunately cut short, Lambert and Garde had potential but didnt work out at all. I would say Sherwood, McLeish and Di Matteo would probably go down as worse managers for us than Bruce. My post-MON manager ranking: Smith > Houllier > Bruce > Lambert > McLeish > Di Matteo > Sherwood I avoid adding Garde to this list as it's unfair due to the circumstances but also because I wouldn't even know where to put him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Lambert was the worst, killed football for a lot of fans. Probably set us back a generation in our fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 hours ago, MaVilla said: yeah, to be fair Bruce isnt the worst manager we have had in the last 10 years by far, but thats more of an indictment of our poor manager choices than the fact he is a brilliant manager. (and the lack of backing Managers got post O'Neill transfer wise). Post O'Neill timeline (and pre Smith), personally i think Houllier had the best potential but was unfortunately cut short, Lambert and Garde had potential but didnt work out at all. I would say Sherwood, McLeish and Di Matteo would probably go down as worse managers for us than Bruce. Sherwood wasn't even in the bottom 3 people to manage Villa the year we went down. That's how bad things have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Zatman said: Lambert was the worst, killed football for a lot of fans. Probably set us back a generation in our fan base This is harsh - he rocked up at ours with a reputation as a forward thinking young coach - having all the attributes we were looking for. Learner then shoved one arm up behind his back and told him to get on with it. As time passed Lambert became more and more regressive in his approach to the game and also as a person. In the end he was a broken man and we were dire - due to Learner wanting steak - whilst paying for a burger. We ruined Lambert as a manager and aged him 10 years in the process of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Dave J said: This is harsh - he rocked up at ours with a reputation as a forward thinking young coach - having all the attributes we were looking for. Learner then shoved one arm up behind his back and told him to get on with it. As time passed Lambert became more and more regressive in his approach to the game and also as a person. In the end he was a broken man and we were dire - due to Learner wanting steak - whilst paying for a burger. We ruined Lambert as a manager and aged him 10 years in the process of this. no I dont believe that, Lambert insisted on removing the senior players and as Bannan said recently he never gave them a reason why. Lambert had one lucky spell at Norwich in a near 15 year managerial career, it was a glitch as for the bomb squad it was as farcical as it got, drop Hutton for 2 years and send him on loan 3 times. Returns and plays 6 games and gets a new 4 year deal. Shay Given dropped from squad then loaned out, recalls him and makes him assistant manager. Was making it up as he was going along 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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