Stuartc445 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: He also kept us up. And it turns out the majority of his signings that summer were pretty solid, they mostly play at the top level. I don't think he was a good manager, far from it. As for Bruce, I'm not one of those that say his good points don't count. We were in the bottom 3 when TS took over, and we stopped up. To me, that's an achievement. He also lost Benteke, which was completely out of control. Then the signings of the likes of Adama, Amavi, Veretout, Gana and Ayew - it's not like he threw the money away. Yes, some might say Adama is useless, but the fact is he moved for a decent fee and plays in the Premier League still. I personally think Amavi is one of the worst performers I've seen at the club (in the Championship, no less), but he still plays at the top level. Sherwood is a poor manager, I don't argue that, and he's one of the worst managers in my life time. The main reason for that being he got nothing out of the squad, which had a bunch of talented players. But Garde didn't either. You're kidding right? the signings that were his was Lescott, Richards (the Winners in his words) and Gestede. Lescott and Richards were the ones that poisoned the dressing room and Gestede was just useless. The players that weren't his signings Amavi, Veretout, Gana and Ayew were actually the better players but needed was experienced pros (of the John Terry mould) but what they got was Lescott, Richards and Gabby. As i said the ONLY reason he isn't joint bottom for me is the FA Cup Final. Edited July 5, 2019 by Stuartc445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: You're kidding right? the signings that were his was Lescott, Richards (the Winners in his words) and Gestede. Lescott and Richards were the ones that poisoned the dressing room and Gestede was just useless. The players that weren't his signings Amavi, Veretout, Gana and Ayew were actually the better players but needed was experienced pros (of the John Terry mould) but what they got was Lescott, Richards and Gabby. As i said the ONLY reason he isn't joint bottom for me is the FA Cup Final. So you're suggesting that Sherwood was basically given players that ultimately failed at the club, without choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: So you're suggesting that Sherwood was basically given players that ultimately failed at the club, without choice? No I'm saying that the players he was given could have succeeded had he not brought wasters like Richards and Lescott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: You're kidding right? the signings that were his was Lescott, Richards (the Winners in his words) and Gestede. Lescott and Richards were the ones that poisoned the dressing room and Gestede was just useless. The players that weren't his signings Amavi, Veretout, Gana and Ayew were actually the better players but needed was experienced pros (of the John Terry mould) but what they got was Lescott, Richards and Gabby. As i said the ONLY reason he isn't joint bottom for me is the FA Cup Final. I think Richards wasn't a poison just a shit player. Lescott was a dick though, Gabby and Guzan didnt help maybe richardson too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I can't see how Tim Sherwood can be anything other than dead last on the list. People are being blinded by a couple of good wins at the end of 2015 when we still had Benteke. In a thread where we're blasting Steve Bruce despite all he's done, that counts for absolutely nothing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I can't see how Tim Sherwood can be anything other than dead last on the list. People are being blinded by a couple of good wins at the end of 2015 when we still had Benteke. In a thread where we're blasting Steve Bruce despite all he's done, that counts for absolutely nothing. Well Benteke was shit before Sherwood took over. He had about 1 goal in 23 games before that though Lambert had given up on the idea of trying to score a goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: Well Benteke was shit before Sherwood took over. He had about 1 goal in 23 games before that though Lambert had given up on the idea of trying to score a goal And he was still recovering from an achilles tear. He was still Benteke. All he needed was a little attacking impetus and arm around the shoulder to get back in the groove, which is pretty much all Sherwood offered anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: And he was still recovering from an achilles tear. He was still Benteke. All he needed was a little attacking impetus and arm around the shoulder to get back in the groove, which is pretty much all Sherwood offered anyway. Is that not good management? Lambert was clueless at the time Lambert was just poison. Bannan interview confirmed his shit management skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Zatman said: Is that not good management? Lambert was clueless at the time Lambert was just poison. Bannan interview confirmed his shit management skills It's not. It was all bluster. It lasted all of 10 games. Lambert had to go and he was terrible, but he also had 3 seasons to arrive at that low point. Sherwood went lower than he ever did, and it just took another 10 games to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Keyblade said: It's not. It was all bluster. It lasted all of 10 games. Lambert had to go and he was terrible, but he also had 3 seasons to arrive at that low point. Sherwood went lower than he ever did, and it just took another 10 games to get there. Mm he brought us to a cup final. Lambert could have done the same but lost shamefully to Bradford. Sherwood was shit but Lambert was a lot worse and we would have wemt down in 2015 with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: Mm he brought us to a cup final. Lambert could have done the same but lost shamefully to Bradford. Sherwood was shit but Lambert was a lot worse and we would have wemt down in 2015 with him I mean, he came in at the Quarterfinal stage so it's a bit hard to compare. Literally just won 2 games in that cup run with Lambert winning all the rest (and 1 in between managers) and then the final was the worst Villa performance of my lifetime. So again, it's really nothing to write home about, and becomes ultimately irrelevant considering what transpired after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2019 6 hours ago, villa4europe said: dunno, I think footballers being the petals they are and taking any chance to shirk they take (I personally believe the EL sunday game performance drop off thing is a mental weakness, cruising with the excuse in their back pocket) they knew the knives were out for lerner and garde and threw the pair of them under the bus, you can argue that Sherwood bought the likes of Richards in and let players get away with murder but I think the thing that sent us down was the apathy and the finger of blame for that goes to lerner agree we were going down no matter who we had Lerner is definitely to blame. But Sherwood is the manager who shoulders most of the blame. We signed terrible players, didn’t integrate r okay the only good ones we signed, had a laughable pre season and we’re nailed on for relegation after 10 games. It’s the most disastrous period at the club in my lifetime and he was at the helm. He was an utterly appalling manager 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2019 6 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: He also kept us up. And it turns out the majority of his signings that summer were pretty solid, they mostly play at the top level. I don't think he was a good manager, far from it. They were solid when managers actually played them or integrated them with the squad or after they moved on from here. Sherwood has tried to wash his hands of our signing anyway. Total fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I mean, he came in at the Quarterfinal stage so it's a bit hard to compare. Literally just won 2 games in that cup run with Lambert winning all the rest (and 1 in between managers) and then the final was the worst Villa performance of my lifetime. So again, it's really nothing to write home about, and becomes ultimately irrelevant considering what transpired after that. He came in 5th round vs Leicester, Lambert villa reputation is he was not McLeish or Sherwood. His 4 clubs after indicate how shit of a manager he was. No people skills, no balls and no tactics. Its always forgotten he would have relegated us 2015.his last game vs Hull was criminal vs a Bruce managed team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Zatman said: He came in 5th round vs Leicester, Lambert villa reputation is he was not McLeish or Sherwood. His 4 clubs after indicate how shit of a manager he was. No people skills, no balls and no tactics. Its always forgotten he would have relegated us 2015.his last game vs Hull was criminal vs a Bruce managed team He literally just got announced that day, and was in the stands during the match. He met the players in the dressing room at halftime. His first real match as manager was against West Brom in the QF. Lambert had a reputation as one of the most promising young managers in English football, having promoted Norwich back to back and finished 12th in the PL in their first season. Had nothing to do with McLeish or Sherwood. He was highly rated when he came to us. He also managed to keep us up twice on the most embarrassing PL budget in recent memory. His legacy isn't much better or worse than McLeish or Houllier. Tim Sherwood's reputation was that he had a lot of pashun and was caretaker manager at Spurs for a few months. What has he done since then? Exactly. They guy is just not a football manager. He managed to slick talk his way into our job and a couple of results but it quickly unraveled. He's a total fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He literally just got announced that day, and was in the stands during the match. He met the players in the dressing room at halftime. His first real match as manager was against West Brom in the QF. Lambert had a reputation as one of the most promising young managers in English football, having promoted Norwich back to back and finished 12th in the PL in their first season. Had nothing to do with McLeish or Sherwood. He was highly rated when he came to us. He also managed to keep us up twice on the most embarrassing PL budget in recent memory. His legacy isn't much better or worse than McLeish or Houllier. Tim Sherwood's reputation was that he had a lot of pashun and was caretaker manager at Spurs for a few months. What has he done since then? Exactly. They guy is just not a football manager. He managed to slick talk his way into our job and a couple of results but it quickly unraveled. He's a total fraud. Lambert brought Villa most embarrassing games in history, -0-14 over 3 christmas games.Norwich was a fluke As for budget, other clubs spent less and thrived. 7 million on Kozak. Guy was a **** fraud, pushed experienced players out of club as he was afraid of them. James Collins played 5 more years in top flight yet Lambert binned him. After Garde he was a poison, bomb squad players indicated his lack of balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Lambert brought Villa most embarrassing games in history, -0-14 over 3 christmas games.Norwich was a fluke As for budget, other clubs spent less and thrived. 7 million on Kozak. Guy was a **** fraud, pushed experienced players out of club as he was afraid of them. James Collins played 5 more years in top flight yet Lambert binned him. After Garde he was a poison, bomb squad players indicated his lack of balls Sherwood spent Lambert's entire 3 year budget in one window. No point pointing out individual transfers, on the whole it was an embarrassingly small. Nobody's saying Lambert was an amazing manager or anything, all you say about him is true. But he was still streets ahead of Sherwood, who shouldn't even be called a manager. Also, there was no game more embarrassing than the FA Cup final fwiw. I'd urge you to look at our lineup during that Christmas run for a little bit more context. It was damn near League One standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted July 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Sherwood spent Lambert's entire 3 year budget in one window. No point pointing out individual transfers, on the whole it was an embarrassingly small You mean the spine of the team that was sold Benteke Delph and Vlarr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Sherwood spent Lambert's entire 3 year budget in one window. No point pointing out individual transfers, on the whole it was an embarrassingly small. Nobody's saying Lambert was an amazing manager or anything, all you say about him is true. But he was still streets ahead of Sherwood, who shouldn't even be called a manager. Also, there was no game more embarrassing than the FA Cup final fwiw. I'd urge you to look at our lineup during that Christmas run for a little bit more context. It was damn near League One standard. Losing 8-0 with your goalkeeper winning man of the match or losing over 2 legs to Bradford or twice breaking the league record in not scoring a goal. Guy is worse thing ever to happen to Villa Mccleish had us top 10 until he got a horror injury list but got the blame for that. Lambert got away with all the embarrassments as somebody else fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, S-Platt said: You mean the spine of the team that was sold Benteke Delph and Vlarr? Lambert had a similar if not bigger overhaul to make in his first window, with less than half the budget. Signed like 10 players for 20m. Paltry. 2 of the players you mentioned there were signed that window incidentally. 14 minutes ago, Zatman said: Losing 8-0 with your goalkeeper winning man of the match or losing over 2 legs to Bradford or twice breaking the league record in not scoring a goal. Guy is worse thing ever to happen to Villa Mccleish had us top 10 until he got a horror injury list but got the blame for that. Lambert got away with all the embarrassments as somebody else fault 2015 FA Cup final and losing 9 out of 10 games to start a season despite spending 50m (a hefty sum for a club like Villa in 2015 ) are worse for me. I get it, Lambert made you hate football and Sherwood "saved" that to a degree, but they aren't even comparable. One is a manager that lost his way and decided that negative football was the only way to keep up a dying club and the other was a charlatan who was making it up as he went along and ultimately ended up relegating said club. Edited July 5, 2019 by Keyblade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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