kurtsimonw Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 He's gained promotion 4 times from this league. Most recently with ownership who seemingly unwilling to back the club, so I've no reason to believe that with good backing from an owner and a clear know-how of the league, that he can take us up within a couple of years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, jasoncb said: My point is people are complaining about the standard of football not removing him as manager as you seem to think. Some people want him gone or are least very close to it and that's who my post was aimed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said: He also needs a lot more than a spoonful of sugar. Frankly I am sick of our club, irrespective of the manager or owner, being unable to gain traction. I can understand that statement. one thing that frustrates me is seeing players over the years like Defoe/ Robbie Keane more recently Matty Phillips, Charlie Adam, Kevin Nolan(when he was playing)Robbie Savage( who we all thought was'nt good enough for us).....drift past our sights. We have triers.....but no fighters, there is a subtle difference. essentially we sign the wrong 'uns and it has crucified us. Having said all of that....its not a rant at Steve Bruce, he knows as much as I do.....obviously more, but you know what I mean. but keep spending 10 mill on speculative signings is no answer either. Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) One thing that has disappointed me over the last few years and most recently, is that we bring in a new manager who in turn brings in a new number 2 and sometimes a number 3, with good reputations in the game. Culverhouse, Karsa, Keane, Wilkins, Clarke, and now Clemence and Calderwood. I along with others on here have been pleased to read that so and so is a great coach, motivator, tactician, fitness guru etc etc. However, we never seem to see any fruits from these reputations? Top stats on passing, keeping the ball, shots on target, fitness etc etc. A pattern of play that's pleasing to see, even if the results go against us. Yes, the buck stops with the manager, but the overall first team staff need to take some responsibility here also and get this squad motivated and gelling. They work with them day in and day out on the training pitch. So, can Clemence and Calderwood do this? I honestly don't know, but hope that they are good enough to support Bruce in achieving this. I'm fed up with manager changes, I really am. I quite like Bruce actually and he says things pre and post match like we all do. He doesn't hide or protect those who don't warrant it. I think he needs time and to bring in the players that he thinks will improve us. After watching him tonight, I think that he would like to just rid himself of at least 5/6 of them and doesn't rate them at all. It was bad tonight and no shots on target in any game, let alone a derby is very poor indeed. I don't want to make excuses for him, but he has inherited a dreadful squad of underachieving players here. Now, I'm hoping for a couple of new faces this week and hopefully a couple more the week after, then let's see where he can take us. I can except a playoff place is perhaps out of reach, but I just want to see us win some games regularly and a style of play that gives me optimism for next season. Edited January 14, 2017 by ferguson1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: He's gained promotion 4 times from this league. Most recently with ownership who seemingly unwilling to back the club, so I've no reason to believe that with good backing from an owner and a clear know-how of the league, that he can take us up within a couple of years. But the thing that will get him sacked....is spending big money, with no improvement. I agree, I too think he will get us up..... I think we are in a bit of a catch 22 situation to be honest and I don't think big money initially will fix it, I think it will paradoxically heap more pressure on us. we may have to spend more time, looking for a few lower league gambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Just now, TRO said: But the thing that will get him sacked....is spending big money, with no improvement. I don't think he will show no improvement with a big spend. Bruce has always been good at putting together a solid defence and midfield. He's maybe not been particularly great in terms of signing strikers - but fortunately he's inherited Kodjia who clearly has the goods at this level. If we can get that base (of which I think we have some of it already in Baker, Chester, de Leat, Grealish, Jedinak(?)) then I am fully confident we'll go up in the next few years. Maybe he'll spend big, but it seems like he's being shrewd with identifying the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury as targets. I fully understand the skepticism once we are in the Premier League, but there really managers who're attainable at this level who you'd rather have, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Xela said: Ok you are right. Lets sack Bruce and get Lambert in! Agreed. Every time the team has a loss I believe we should sack our manager and appoint the manager of the team who beat us. That is a sure fire route to promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mantis said: No. Why would I? Although I do think he's hamstrung a little bit right now what with AFCON and not being able to get many players in yet. But why didn't he take AFCON into consideration and plan for new arrivals to come in at the start of January? And why did we sell a striker when we have lost 2 for a month? Maybe Dr Tony is not prepared to splash out in this window? Something is wrong here. We have scored1 goal in 5 away games! Edited January 15, 2017 by One For The Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 As it stands... He can't organise 11 players to do the basics and be organised with some purpose. After a promising start his overall purpose is... ok. Hence why we're 13th n miles off the pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Agreed. Every time the team has a loss I believe we should sack our manager and appoint the manager of the team who beat us. That is a sure fire route to promotion. we should also sign the players who scored in them games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: One thing that has disappointed me over the last few years and most recently, is that we bring in a new manager who in turn brings in a new number 2 and sometimes a number 3, with good reputations in the game. Culverhouse, Karsa, Keane, Wilkins, Clarke, and now Clemence and Calderwood. I along with others on here have been pleased to read that so and so is a great coach, motivator, tactician, fitness guru etc etc. However, we never seem to see any fruits from these reputations? Top stats on passing, keeping the ball, shots on target, fitness etc etc. A pattern of play that's pleasing to see, even if the results go against us. Yes, the buck stops with the manager, but the overall first team staff need to take some responsibility here also and get this squad motivated and gelling. They work with them day in and day out on the training pitch. So, can Clemence and Calderwood do this? I honestly don't know, but hope that they are good enough to support Bruce in achieving this. I'm fed up with manager changes, I really am. I quite like Bruce actually and he says things pre and post match like we all do. He doesn't hide or protect those who don't warrant it. I think he needs time and to bring in the players that he thinks will improve us. After watching him tonight, I think that he would like to just rid himself of at least 5/6 of them and doesn't rate them at all. It was bad tonight and no shots on target in any game, let alone a derby is very poor indeed. I don't want to make excuses for him, but he has inherited a dreadful squad of underachieving players here. Now, I'm hoping for a couple of new faces this week and hopefully a couple more the week after, then let's see where he can take us. I can except a playoff place is perhaps out of reach, but I just want to see us win some games regularly and a style of play that gives me optimism for next season. I too am tired of manager changes and also tired of expecting so much, so soon, in the light of the massive mess we have created for ourselves. I do find it bizarre that not much comes out of BMH anymore at any level....thats an observation, because I simply do not know who to blame....if in fact blame helps. I get the impression SB is a pissed off as we are with what he sees.....but that does not help us, does it. Right now, I don't know any manager who could fix this, unless time is granted. SB as a man, I see so many similarities with Graham Taylor, not saying he is as good, just see an honesty a passion a determination a sense of humility.....I seen in Graham and If is on those lines with Graham.....I want to see him given some time. I believed in Graham Taylor, not everything but most and I believe in Steve Bruce, not everything but most. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 It's an endless cycle, new manager and staff, new signings followed by failure. We have a new owner, but already we are suffering for poor decisions made in the summer. I don't think I have seen a single match this season where I really enjoyed watching us play, where we have dominated, even the times we have won. Bruce gave us a lift in confidence and made a few decent changes and benefitted from a few circumstances that RDM suffered from. But ultimately we are playing no better, we have a few individuals who get us out of jail occasionally but that's about it. Positives: Seeing the potential in the Baker and Chester partnership Putting faith in Kodjia Bringing in Calderwood Briefly getting Grealish and Jed back on track Negatives: Treatment of Gollini, whilst I don't think Gollini should have been our first choice I don't think he did that badly. Swapping him for another inexperienced goal keeper on loan is baffling. Amavi, while I was glad to see him at left back at first, I honestly think we've found out 'again' that he can't defend that well and should be used further up the pitch. Freezing Tish out, while he is def better than Westwood and Gardener I kinda see why Bruce waited so long to play Tish, he's hardly thrived in the few recent starts he has had. Gabby, I don't need to say anymore. I don't know if the contract situation came first with RHM - either way he or Davis should have started ahead of Gabby. Tactically i haven't seen any evidence of any tactics, we don't defend as a team we don't attack as a team, we always look outnumbered in every area of the pitch, like we are playing against 12 men. Adomah, Grealish, McCormack are all totally ineffective. Somewhere between: Involvement of Hutton, Westwood, Gardener and Bacuna. Now I don't think Bruce has a lot of choice, he simply can't freeze them all out, I would argue Bacuna is better at right back, Gardener deserved a chance. But his over reliance on Westwood has been unforgivable, Hutton is a necessary evil I guess. Regardless, I don't see sacking Bruce as the answer, I also don't see that we will make enough signings in the Jan window to get us promotion. All I can hope for is we make some kind of improvement and gain stability as right now I just want to enjoy watching us again, rather than week in week out praying at half time Bruce will change something that will make us recover from the terrible first half performance. I genuinely think it will take another year or two for us to recover from the damage done by the Lerner era. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I don't think he will show no improvement with a big spend. Bruce has always been good at putting together a solid defence and midfield. He's maybe not been particularly great in terms of signing strikers - but fortunately he's inherited Kodjia who clearly has the goods at this level. If we can get that base (of which I think we have some of it already in Baker, Chester, de Leat, Grealish, Jedinak(?)) then I am fully confident we'll go up in the next few years. Maybe he'll spend big, but it seems like he's being shrewd with identifying the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury as targets. I fully understand the skepticism once we are in the Premier League, but there really managers who're attainable at this level who you'd rather have, surely? No exactly my point. Look, none of us have the answers......just naturally frustration. but realistically and even unrealistically, who could hand on heart say anyone can fix this in this time scale and the Constraints. afcon team standing ( attraction) pesky windows FFP Expectation Financial pressure ( would you want to put your name to 10 mill deal to bring them in this cesspit of a squad) This manager needs support from everywhere in the club and time to work his experience. Edited January 15, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Woodytom said: As it stands... He can't organise 11 players to do the basics and be organised with some purpose. After a promising start his overall purpose is... ok. Hence why we're 13th n miles off the pace. Do you not think that it's anything to do with players? He inherited a mess that wasn't his. 15 games in and apparently he "can't do the basics". Which is exactly what he has done. We're far more organised than under the previous manager. Unfortunately a number of important players are now away and, surprise, we've lost a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Do you not think that it's anything to do with players? He inherited a mess that wasn't his. 15 games in and apparently he "can't do the basics". Which is exactly what he has done. We're far more organised than under the previous manager. Unfortunately a number of important players are now away and, surprise, we've lost a few. Yes of course I think it's something to do with the players. But that today wasn't organised. Yeah you might say we've lost 2 important players.... One is really not rated on this site fwiw but that does not excuse going to a dark caldren like molineux, facing a mighty team like wolves and not mustering a single shot on target. Wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, TRO said: No exactly my point. Look, none of us have the answers......just naturally frustration. but realistically and even unrealistically, who could hand on heart say anyone can fix this in this time scale and the Constraints. afcon team standing pesky windows FFP Expectation Financial pressure ( would you want to put your name to 10 mill deal to bring them in this cesspit of a squad) This manager needs support from everywhere in the club and time to work his experience. Spot on. But rather than look at the situation and the facts, some just won't give him time. All of the above, along with the fact it's not his team, they're coming off 18 months of hell at the club and so on, Bruce has picked up 25 points in 15 games. To put that in to perspective - over a full season that would've got Villa in to the playoffs on last seasons standings. And some want rid? That's absolutely mental IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, TRO said: No exactly my point. Look, none of us have the answers......just naturally frustration. but realistically and even unrealistically, who could hand on heart say anyone can fix this in this time scale and the Constraints. afcon team standing pesky windows FFP Expectation Financial pressure ( would you want to put your name to 10 mill deal to bring them in this cesspit of a squad) This manager needs support from everywhere in the club and time to work his experience. This manager need's to put out a team of players that look arsed... first and foremost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: And some want rid? Who btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Woodytom said: Who btw? Some Villa fans. Pretty obvious, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 We could have brought any number of managers and they may not have even secured the points Steve has. it hasn't been pretty and he hasn't been totally happy but he had to try and stave of a total free fall and a Euro championship manager may of being contributing to that. Look, there is no cast iron saviour. I don't think any fan is saying we are happy, far from it.......but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are no guarantees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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