Steve Bruce

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, omariqy said:

Well no he doesn't.  Bruce doesn't win in either scenario. If we have no money and have to play the youngsters and develop a new style then he doesn't win. 

He does given the alternatives.

Who do you think is going to come and manage us if we are so financially strapped that we have to sell all of our players and play the youngsters?

[Stevo985]

56 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Well of course you would - you either do or you don't, don't make it any more complex than it is - it really is down to your choosing as a manager 

Are you really suggesting I would have Aston Villa playing attacking football?
Do you ACTUALLY think it's that simple? Really? Because that would explain a lot

58 minutes ago, Dave J said:

 and as for looking back with envy ? On a failed season ?

Absolutely. When we've sold most of our squad and are battling relegation with one of the nobodies in charge that you've suggested we'll be looking back on last season and wishing we had another season like that.

Like I said, if the finances aren't as bad as it appears and we can appoint a good replacement for bruce, then the discussion is entirely different. But if we end up with one of the people you suggested then we are in for a terrible season.

[terrytini]

57 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Well of course you would - you either do or you don't, don't make it any more complex than it is - it really is down to your choosing as a manager and as for looking back with envy ? On a failed season ?

Leaving aside the pro v anti debate, I’m intrigued that for you a season is a failure because we didn’t get promoted.

Doesnt that mean it was a failure for 82 Clubs ? All except the promoted ones and the PL winners ?

I’ve never viewed football that way and didn’t really realise anybody else did ?

My favourite season as a Villa fan was in 75/76 ( I think) when we were 5th or 6th. Yet it was a failed season ?

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Maybe so but we didn't really contain them and fell asleep for their goal, we let them have free reign of the pitch and on the few occasions we got possession we were a shambles. 

Whatever SB instructed them to do, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.

Look, I'm not going to encourage anyone to watch that game again, I'm trying to etch it out of memory but there were lots of examples of the players bottling it and/or allowing the occasion to get to them, even JT. 

We all thought pre game our experience would win over against their youth, totally didnt happen, they were bang up for it and we were shitting ourselves. 

I'm not saying SB is blameless, I'm sure he will have done something differently if given the chance to repeat, but for me, irrespective of tactics the players did not look up for it, for whatever reason(s). 

OK, time for me to have my annual futile attempt to encourage correct usage of “reign” and “rein” on Villatalk. 

“Reign” is what the Queen does on account of her being Queen. “Rein” is what controls a horse and giving “free rein” means letting the horse run with little or no control.

I’ve got a feeling this post intended to say “rein” (as in horse) rather than “reign” as in Queen. 

[sne]

4 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

OK, time for me to have my annual futile attempt to encourage correct usage of “reign” and “rein” on Villatalk. 

“Reign” is what the Queen does on account of her being Queen. “Rein” is what controls a horse and giving “free rein” means letting the horse run with little or no control.

I’ve got a feeling this post intended to say “rein” (as in horse) rather than “reign” as in Queen. 

Hey man, don't reign on his parade 

Edited June 13, 2018 by sne

[flashingqwerty]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

So, basically the very definition of a bad plan!

i suppose what im trying to say is that i can understand why he did it and why he would think it would work.  hindsight is the only thing that really makes it bad.

of course id have prefered we went full throttle 1st half with the hope of blowing them away. we had enough chances 2nd half to make me think that fresher players in the 1st half might have converted them

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, romavillan said:

Both Terry and Chester were ball wathcing though too. with respect to the goal.

OK, but my point was that we were set to be defensive by the manager.  Do players make errors?  Yes, even the best.  There will be player errors in Russia this month.   But in our case, the manager set us up to be overly defensive for the nth time this seasons.   That’s a safe pair of hands for you 

[srsmithusa]

The rein in speighn falls mainly in the rain.  

[srsmithusa]

12 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

i suppose what im trying to say is that i can understand why he did it and why he would think it would work.  hindsight is the only thing that really makes it bad.

of course id have prefered we went full throttle 1st half with the hope of blowing them away. we had enough chances 2nd half to make me think that fresher players in the 1st half might have converted them

In other words, bad plan.  (Push repeat)

[DaveAV1]

56 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

OK, time for me to have my annual futile attempt to encourage correct usage of “reign” and “rein” on Villatalk. 

“Reign” is what the Queen does on account of her being Queen. “Rein” is what controls a horse and giving “free rein” means letting the horse run with little or no control.

I’ve got a feeling this post intended to say “rein” (as in horse) rather than “reign” as in Queen. 

An excellent reminder to watch what you’re typing. I’m just back from editing an earlier post . It may be wise to make this a monthly rather than annual visit to the lexicography department. 

[srsmithusa]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

An excellent reminder to watch what you’re typing. I’m just back from editing an earlier post . It may be wise to make this a monthly rather than annual visit to the lexicography department. 

Show off.  

my autocorrect put “shoe off”  I edited it before posting.  I seriously considered just leaving it, given the context.  

[AntrimBlack]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

keep happy clapping.

its all wishful/ pre-emptive thinking on anyones part.

We'll see.

[omariqy]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

He does given the alternatives.

Who do you think is going to come and manage us if we are so financially strapped that we have to sell all of our players and play the youngsters?

You should never continue with failure because of an apparent lack of options. That is a futile exercise. There are plenty of young coaches who have cultivated a team and an identity without spending money. Nathan Jones at Luton, Oscar Garcia, Dean Smith never mind the options abroad. 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, srsmithusa said:

Show off.  

my autocorrect put “shoe off”  I edited it before posting.  I seriously considered just leaving it, given the context.  

I googled the correct spelling, but keep it to yourself 

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Are you really suggesting I would have Aston Villa playing attacking football?
Do you ACTUALLY think it's that simple? Really? Because that would explain a lot

Absolutely. When we've sold most of our squad and are battling relegation with one of the nobodies in charge that you've suggested we'll be looking back on last season and wishing we had another season like that.

Like I said, if the finances aren't as bad as it appears and we can appoint a good replacement for bruce, then the discussion is entirely different. But if we end up with one of the people you suggested then we are in for a terrible season.

As always with you - the undertone is that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

And on this basis there really is no point in continuing this debate I'm afraid.

I would like too - but I'm not going  too.

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, terrytini said:

Leaving aside the pro v anti debate, I’m intrigued that for you a season is a failure because we didn’t get promoted.

Doesnt that mean it was a failure for 82 Clubs ? All except the promoted ones and the PL winners ?

I’ve never viewed football that way and didn’t really realise anybody else did ?

My favourite season as a Villa fan was in 75/76 ( I think) when we were 5th or 6th. Yet it was a failed season ?

Absolutely a failure as was the season before and I am totally confident the club would acknowledge this also Terry.

 

ps - yes I was there too and I totally agree - we played some terrific football back then ( there might just be a clue here?) 

[TheAuthority]

6 hours ago, omariqy said:

You should never continue with failure because of an apparent lack of options. That is a futile exercise. There are plenty of young coaches who have cultivated a team and an identity without spending money. Nathan Jones at Luton, Oscar Garcia, Dean Smith never mind the options abroad. 

Not having a go at you directly Omar but I think VT needs a sticky at the top of the page about Dean Smith.

The Brentford set up is almost unique in football. Matthew Benham owns Brentford and Benham is a very succesful businessman. He studied at Oxford, worked in finance (including being a VP of Bank of America) then made a fortune with online gambling companies.

Brentford FC have a team of scouts and analysts and EVERY decision at the club is made by a consensus based on the results of the analytic data - even down to who is substituted and at what point in the game. 

Dean Smith runs the training drills and is head coach of Brentford. But the drills are chosen for him, the transfers are made by a completely different department and basically he isn't a 'football manager' in any old sense of the word. He is just the mouthpiece of the decisions based on the data and trys to keep team morale as high as possible.

Aston Villa is not set up this way. The 'manager' at Villa has a say in all of the decisions around the 1st team that I've mentioned. Training drills, picking the team, the substitutes, the setup, the transfers.

Dean Smith has never had to make any of those kind of decisions before. It would be an absolutely farcical decision to bring him here. It really would only slightly better than appointing a random Holte Ender to manage the club.

I know a lot of Villa fans seem to think that Dean Smith is an amazing manager based on watching his team beat Villa twice in the past two seasons and that they played some pretty football. However we also drew with them twice and finished 4th in the league compared to their position of 9th. 

If it were a choice between Bruce or Smith to manage Aston Villa with the way our club is setup to be managed, then the one choice that is guaranteed to end in absolute disaster is Dean Smith.

It Benham was interested in purchasing Villa it might be interesting to see how the system he has created would work at a club of our size and stature. But that would be the only person from Brentford's staff I would be open to coming to VP.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by TheAuthority

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

Not having a go at you directly Omar but I think VT needs a sticky at the top of the page about Dean Smith.

The Brentford set up is almost unique in football. Matthew Benham owns Brentford and Benham is a very succesful businessman. He studied at Oxford, worked in finance (including being a VP of Bank of America) then made a fortune with online gambling companies.

Brentford FC have a team of scouts and analysts and EVERY decision at the club is made by a consensus based on the results of the analytic data - even down to who is substituted and at what point in the game. 

Dean Smith runs the training drills and is head coach of Brentford. But the drills are chosen for him, the transfers are made by a completely different department and basically he isn't a 'football manager' in any old sense of the word. He is just the mouthpiece of the decisions based on the data and trys to keep team morale as high as possible.

Aston Villa is not set up this way. The 'manager' at Villa has a say in all of the decisions around the 1st team that I've mentioned. Training drills, picking the team, the substitutes, the setup, the transfers.

Dean Smith has never had to make any of those kind of decisions before. It would be an absolutely farcical decision to bring him here. It really would only slightly better than appointing a random Holte Ender to manage the club.

I know a lot of Villa fans seem to think that Dean Smith is an amazing manager based on watching his team beat Villa twice in the past two seasons and that they played some pretty football. However we also drew with them twice and finished 4th in the league compared to their position of 9th. 

If it were a choice between Bruce or Smith to manage Aston Villa with the way our club is setup to be managed, then the one choice that is guaranteed to end in absolute disaster is Dean Smith.

It Benham was interested in purchasing Villa it might be interesting to see how the system he has created would work at a club of our size and stature. But that would be the only person from Brentford's staff I would be open to coming to VP.

 

I know it’s a completely different kettle of fish but he did very well at Walsall before getting his move. Left a team that nearly made automatic promotion. Something that is very rare for a club the size of Walsall.

[Vive_La_Villa]

The club appointed Steve Bruce due to his excellent record of promotion out this league. It didn’t work but you can understand the logic.

Now If reports are believed in terms of our finances we will most likely be in a relegation battle. 

So on that basis shouldn’t we be looking for a manager with an excellent record of staying in this league? 

[DCJonah]

10 hours ago, terrytini said:

Leaving aside the pro v anti debate, I’m intrigued that for you a season is a failure because we didn’t get promoted.

Doesnt that mean it was a failure for 82 Clubs ? All except the promoted ones and the PL winners ?

I’ve never viewed football that way and didn’t really realise anybody else did ?

My favourite season as a Villa fan was in 75/76 ( I think) when we were 5th or 6th. Yet it was a failed season ?

Success and failure is surely based on what each club set out to achieve. Some it will be league position, others will be financial changes while staying competitive, there will be clubs who just aim to survive by any means possible. 

For us, there was no doubt that it was promotion. So in that sense, yes last season was a failure. And with what we have seen it looks to be a very expensive failure.