Jareth Posted June 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, srsmithusa said: oh, I thought the goal was promotion.... Looking forward to this sort of thing haunting the Bruce thread all next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob182 said: We don't even know whether a different manager using a different style of play last season would have seen us finish higher than under Bruce. If someone had suggested the Fulham manager to you last season, they'd have got laughed at. Likewise if a little-known name like David Wagner or Nuno had been suggested, the usual "Bruce is the safe pair of hands" response would have been given. If we're sticking with Bruce, then I'll take the positives that that brings (his footballing contacts, stability, continuity, a defensive approach that will be equipped for avoiding relegation if we do lose a lot of players), but if he was to leave, I would be looking at a completely different set of positives with the prospect of a new manager. But that's exactly the point. An unknown manager COULD be a total success but may also be a complete and utter disaster. That's the risk. And it is a risk we absolutely cannot take right now. Now is a time for "safe hands" more than ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Nah you're right, lets sack SB and go get one of the worlds greatest Managers. *OR we could get any manager with progressive ambition, tactical nous, OR even someone like the 6 managers who have promoted lesser teams on lower budgets than us over the last 2 seasons. Honestly, they're all waiting for a call from Dr. T right now. How do the goalposts move? No one claims Bruce is anything other than what he is, an experienced Manager who, whether you like to admit it or not, probably knows more about football and football management than all of us combined. Paul Jewell probably knows more about Football and Football management that all of us combined too, what's your point? It's the 'Brouters' who love to shout and make as much noise as possible, often based on nothing other than opinion or assumption. When presented with facts they choose to ignore them and being making noise again instead, it's the new Trump-inspired approach to making yourself seem important, make lots of noise and lots of bullshit but if you say it for long enough and loud enough others might start believing it. (***To be fair it seem like it is actually the reverse, and it is you folks who are in deep denial and making up shite in attempts to strengthen failed arguments in defence of Bruce, even in the face of the most blatant factual evidence, lol***) Facts such as: - Target from board, senior players, and manager himself was automatic promotion. - Had the most expensive squad in the League, as well as highest wages (current financial situation also a hint) - Failed to utilise the squad at his disposal to maximise chances of better results, especially against weaker opposition. - Has gotten relegated almost as many times as promoted. - Well known that his teams have little fluid, attacking ambition and plan B etc. - FAILED TO GET PROMOTION - FAILED TARGET - NON PROGRESSIVE And the list goes on, but pointless regurgitating the same argument. lol Edited June 13, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rob182 said: From the very small sample that you picked to prove your point, did you notice that we played 5 defenders in one of the away games? Forget the amount of strikers, 5 defenders against the mighty Cardiff is defensive overkill. Reveal hidden contents I should add, that I haven't looked back to the injury situation of the squad at the time of these games, or even the positions that the players actually played during the games. Elmohamady was playing on the wing against Cardiff away. We hadn't signed Snodgrass yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 It depends @Okonokos. It depends on what state you think our squad will be in next season. I personally don't think we'll automatically be main relegation contenders needing a safe pair of hands to guide us to the promise land of mid-table safety. I still think we'll have a squad of mid-table quality, even if we lose Grealish, Chester and Kodjia, and therefore I don't particularly want another season of Bruce bringing in 34-year-olds on one-year deals to 'steady the ship'. I'd rather go for a manager who maybe has a couple of Plans past 'A', and maybe some previous experience in developing youngsters. Something to start the Aston Villa rebuild, as opposed to being 'steadied' for however long Steve Bruce decides to stick around before he inevitably leaves us. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: Elmohamady was playing on the wing against Cardiff away. We hadn't signed Snodgrass yet. It's a good job I added that spoiler then! @bannedfromHandV Please do your research and put players in their rightful positions when posting your tiny sample pots please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Rob182 said: I try to be balanced in my opinions about Villa, but I can't agree with this. How many times last season did we play well for the full 90 minutes of a game? We could probably count it on one hand. That is fully at the manager's feet. If once, twice or three times in a season a team failed to perform for a full 45-minute half, then you could say that the players were at fault, because the manager presumably would have given them a rollocking and sorted it out for the next handful of games. But when it happens for the majority of the games in a season, the manager must take the blame. He's seen it over and over and over, so he should manage the team and stop them from doing it so regularly. You could blame a few individual players for momentarily lapses (ie: the goal), but I place the blame squarely with Steve Bruce for setting out the team 'in a certain way', which resulted in us having (yet again) an utterly appalling first half showing. I'm so glad you you responded, because, quite honestly, he's opinion means diddly squat to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rob182 said: It depends @Okonokos. It depends on what state you think our squad will be in next season. I personally don't think we'll automatically be main relegation contenders needing a safe pair of hands to guide us to the promise land of mid-table safety. I still think we'll have a squad of mid-table quality, even if we lose Grealish, Chester and Kodjia, and therefore I don't particularly want another season of Bruce bringing in 34-year-olds on one-year deals to 'steady the ship'. I'd rather go for a manager who maybe has a couple of Plans past 'A', and maybe some previous experience in developing youngsters. Something to start the Aston Villa rebuild, as opposed to being 'steadied' for however long Steve Bruce decides to stick around before he inevitably leaves us. Yes, absolutely it does completely depend on the squad we have for the upcoming season. I guess we'll just have to be patient and see what happens in the transfer window. I agree, I don't think we'll be automatic relegation contenders, however who really knows what's going on at the club right now. This time next week we might have been taken over and everything looks rosy or we could be in administration and facing a points deduction. I just think realistically, the best we can hope for is a "steady the ship"/consolidation type of season where hopefully we can then start to rebuild next summer if the finances have been sorted out by then. Taking everything into account I just think we'd be better off sticking with Bruce than going for what else is out there. ANY realistic new manager would be too risky right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Okonokos said: Yes, absolutely it does completely depend on the squad we have for the upcoming season. I guess we'll just have to be patient and see what happens in the transfer window. I agree, I don't think we'll be automatic relegation contenders, however who really knows what's going on at the club right now. This time next week we might have been taken over and everything looks rosy or we could be in administration and facing a points deduction. I just think realistically, the best we can hope for is a "steady the ship"/consolidation type of season where hopefully we can then start to rebuild next summer if the finances have been sorted out by then. Taking everything into account I just think we'd be better off sticking with Bruce than going for what else is out there. ANY realistic new manager would be too risky right now. There's always an element of risk with any manager. I agree that Bruce will bring certain positives. It's just my personal preference that, if the opportunity arose (I.e: he offered his resignation or someone poached him from us), I'd let him leave and look forward to a season of the unknown - and cross my fingers that it didn't backfire spectacularly. I'm not one of these people that reads about football outside of their own club, so I'm not able to suggest lists of potential replacements, but there must be up-and-coming managers out there that would easily see a mid-table squad into a mid-table position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Rob182 said: There's always an element of risk with any manager. I agree that Bruce will bring certain positives. It's just my personal preference that, if the opportunity arose (I.e: he offered his resignation or someone poached him from us), I'd let him leave and look forward to a season of the unknown - and cross my fingers that it didn't backfire spectacularly. I'm not one of these people that reads about football outside of their own club, so I'm not able to suggest lists of potential replacements, but there must be up-and-coming managers out there that would easily see a mid-table squad into a mid-table position. Yeah, I think there are a few decent young, forward thinking managers out there who could do a job, but it's a question of can we get them? If we have no money then how do we pay any compensation? Basically, I'm just worried that if Bruce does go then we'd only be able to afford out of work managers and might end up with someone like Pardew! No thanks, I'll stick with Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, Okonokos said: But that's exactly the point. An unknown manager COULD be a total success but may also be a complete and utter disaster. That's the risk. And it is a risk we absolutely cannot take right now. Now is a time for "safe hands" more than ever. I'd call what happened at Wembley a complete and uttter disaster. Presided over, by, what you would describe as " safe hands " . I'll take the risk, please. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: I'd call what happened at Wembley a complete and uttter disaster. Presided over, by, what you would describe as " safe hands " . I'll take the risk, please. I described him as safe hands in relation to next season, not last season. If we are facing a relegation battle and need to stay in the league then I'd say he is a safer pair of hands than most managers we could realistically get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Okonokos said: I described him as safe hands in relation to next season, not last season. If we are facing a relegation battle and need to stay in the league then I'd say he is a safer pair of hands than most managers we could realistically get. If the risk is still an option, I'll take it, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 In light of whats happened, I'm not sure whether to stick or twist on Steve Bruce. I see merits in both arguments, keep him and get rid. The main problem for me is not knowing what we are likely to get in his place.....The notion, it can't get any worse, is totally misplaced in my view. We know Steve Warts and all....He knows the kids and their strengths, Whether he favours playing them as opposed to experienced players, is neither here nor there, he may not have a choice. He knows the club and its recent financial failings, he should be more tolerant of it and not have high expectations like a new guy. I understand the frustration of the " Brouters" and yes there is merit in their argument.....but there has to be a balance, you cannot expect to go gungho attacking and pull up trees, there has to be a resillient side to your game if promotion is a target or development for that matter.....just the same as sitting back and surrendering initiative will eventually get you undone....as has been proved. We need a balanced approach that involves both.....that will very likely will involve stamina and Energy. I am all for playing the kids and I believe some will only develop further in the first team, you can only go so far playing reserve or academy football....my concern is the physical side, while they are developing, thats why I am in favour of a bit of experienced muscle in key areas that can ease them in to their football. I don't think there is any right or wrong way.....stay with him, is a gamble, sack him is a gamble. I guess the wise man will say, if there is no obvious surety to change, what are you changing for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, TRO said: .....stay with him, is a gamble, sack him is a gamble. Truer words were never spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2018 Rock - Villa - Hard Place 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I think it all comes down to how long you want to spend in this division. If we keep Bruce there is a good chance we could be in the play offs again next season. If we go for another manager then we have to consider re-building the whole team, possibly learning a different style and doing all this with players the new manager does not know.All a new manager would have to do is say the usual ( everybody starts with a clean sheet ) and we are back with Mc Cormack in the team and a pathetic dressing room.FFS stick with the man who knows the team and the guy that got us 4 from the top ( or if you like 20 from the bottom ) SB is not my favourite manager ( he is too defensive ) but he does know the team, he was good in the transfer market,he saved heaps of $$$ and he got us to 4th.Irrespective of who goes I think we should still have a decent team and with a few good loan players its not impossible that we reach the play - offs again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof hearted Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, TRO said: In light of whats happened, I'm not sure whether to stick or twist on Steve Bruce. I see merits in both arguments, keep him and get rid. The main problem for me is not knowing what we are likely to get in his place.....The notion, it can't get any worse, is totally misplaced in my view. We know Steve Warts and all....He knows the kids and their strengths, Whether he favours playing them as opposed to experienced players, is neither here nor there, he may not have a choice. He knows the club and its recent financial failings, he should be more tolerant of it and not have high expectations like a new guy. I understand the frustration of the " Brouters" and yes there is merit in their argument.....but there has to be a balance, you cannot expect to go gungho attacking and pull up trees, there has to be a resillient side to your game if promotion is a target or development for that matter.....just the same as sitting back and surrendering initiative will eventually get you undone....as has been proved. We need a balanced approach that involves both.....that will very likely will involve stamina and Energy. I am all for playing the kids and I believe some will only develop further in the first team, you can only go so far playing reserve or academy football....my concern is the physical side, while they are developing, thats why I am in favour of a bit of experienced muscle in key areas that can ease them in to their football. I don't think there is any right or wrong way.....stay with him, is a gamble, sack him is a gamble. I guess the wise man will say, if there is no obvious surety to change, what are you changing for? Bang on the money for me @TRO, definitely a case of better the devil you know, and with zero expectations he may show us an attacking intent previously not seen. Not holding my breath, but as always, whilst he's here I'll support him and the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 32 minutes ago, Hoof hearted said: Bang on the money for me @TRO, definitely a case of better the devil you know, and with zero expectations he may show us an attacking intent previously not seen. Not holding my breath, but as always, whilst he's here I'll support him and the club. You never know. The problem for all of us on both sides of the divide......nothing is certain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Well, if he is staying, I will just have to accept it. He cannot change his mindset. The football will be turgid; the youngsters will languish in the U23's for another season if they don't move on; we will not get promoted; we will not be relegated. Under the present circumstances this is perhaps the best we can hope for, although it will be another wasted season. But at least we will still exist. My expectations have lowered dramatically - survival looks good!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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