Stevo985 Posted June 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave J said: Improvement in style of play would be without question imo You're going to be very disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 13, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2018 53 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: My main issue with Bruce is not the style of football but as soon as he comes up against a good team away from home he sets us up to fail every single time. We beat all the top 3 at home last season which proved we could go toe to toe with anyone. Good point which just about answers all of those who think it was solely down to the players for that 1st half performance in the play of final. That performance had been repeated a multitude of times during the season. If the rumours are correct and Xia wanted Bruce out then if Xia remains owner I cannot see Bruce being the manager at the start of next season. Could all be bull of course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Rob182 said: I try to be balanced in my opinions about Villa, but I can't agree with this. How many times last season did we play well for the full 90 minutes of a game? We could probably count it on one hand. That is fully at the manager's feet. If once, twice or three times in a season a team failed to perform for a full 45-minute half, then you could say that the players were at fault, because the manager presumably would have given them a rollocking and sorted it out for the next handful of games. But when it happens for the majority of the games in a season, the manager must take the blame. He's seen it over and over and over, so he should manage the team and stop them from doing it so regularly. You could blame a few individual players for momentarily lapses (ie: the goal), but I place the blame squarely with Steve Bruce for setting out the team 'in a certain way', which resulted in us having (yet again) an utterly appalling first half showing. Then we'll need to agree to disagree Rob. I spent that entire first half utterly distraught with what the players were doing, not what SB was doing. I guess it comes down to perception, some people seem to think that players are like puppets on a string, the Manager being the puppeteer of course. I don't subscribe to that. The Manager will pick a formation, pick 11 players and will try and give some kind of motivational team talk (I assume), from that point on it's on the players as far as I'm concerned. I know the players bottled it, if I was more dedicated to proving myself right I'd go back and watch the first half to make specific notes but I clearly recall at least 2-3 occasions in the first half where it was obvious (as mentioned previously, people looking like complete strangers to one another) - this is not SB (or any Managers fault), they failed to rise to the occasion, it's literally as simple as that. People keep referencing our style of play throughout the season, thing is, I watched some other Championship teams, Fulham, Wolves and Cardiff particularly - the quality was not great in any of them, might just be because it's 2nd tier football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, striker said: Good point which just about answers all of those who think it was solely down to the players for that 1st half performance in the play of final. That performance had been repeated a multitude of times during the season. If the rumours are correct and Xia wanted Bruce out then if Xia remains owner I cannot see Bruce being the manager at the start of next season. Could all be bull of course? Is it a good point though or is it just an easy statement to make? Our team vs Wolves away: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Terry, Chester, Hutton, Snodgrass, Hourihane, Whelan, Adomah, Davis, Kodjia Our team vs Wolves home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor, Snodgrass, Jedinak, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban Our team vs Cardiff away: Sam Johnstone Alan Hutton, James Chester, John Terry Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamady Henri Lansbury, Glenn Whelan, Joshua Onomah Gabriel Agbonlahor, Scott Hogan Our team vs Cardiff home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Jedinak, Tuanzebe, Snodgrass, Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban So in those two away games, that we lost, we had 2 strikers on the pitch. The two home games, which we won, we had 1 striker on the pitch. But SB 'sets us up negatively and to lose away from home', right? Edited June 13, 2018 by bannedfromHandV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Retained list issued - looks like he is staying. However we live in turbulent times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Is it a good point though or is it just an easy statement to make? Our team vs Wolves away: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Terry, Chester, Hutton, Snodgrass, Hourihane, Whelan, Adomah, Davis, Kodjia Our team vs Wolves home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor, Snodgrass, Jedinak, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban Our team vs Cardiff away: Sam Johnstone Alan Hutton, James Chester, John Terry Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamady Henri Lansbury, Glenn Whelan, Joshua Onomah Gabriel Agbonlahor, Scott Hogan Our team vs Cardiff home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Jedinak, Tuanzebe, Snodgrass, Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban So in those two away games, that we lost, we had 2 strikers on the pitch. The two home games, which we won, we had 1 striker on the pitch. But SB 'sets us up negatively and to lose away from home', right? Seems Gealish is the key here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Jareth said: Bruce staying is what we need. We need new players to come in to a settled environment, not a complete tear down and start over. I think we'll see the benefit of stability this season. i thought we were supposed to see the benefit of stability season before last.... and last... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Okonokos said: Definitely. In our current position I can't understand why anybody would want Bruce out. We need stability and a safe pair of hands now more than ever before. Bruce may not be glamorous but he is safe and more than capable of steadying the ship for us next season, whatever squad we have. I can't think of one single manager out there that we realistically could get that would be less of a risk than Bruce staying. Needing"safe hands" and all that hyperbole nonsense is why we are still "safely" in the Championship with folks like you claiming we need safe hands ffs. The goalposts will never stop moving for people who want Bruce to stay. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: You're going to be very disappointed. and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be very disappointed with Bruce in charge as well. I guess I'm just doomed. And you, are you expecting lots of exciting, attacking, free-flowing entertaining stuff with Bruce in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: i thought we were supposed to see the benefit of stability season before last.... and last... Well TBF his league placing over two seasons has evidenced an improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Needing"safe hands" and all that hyperbole nonsense is why we are still "safely" in the Championship with folks like you claiming we need safe hands ffs. The goalposts will never stop moving for people who want Bruce to stay. Name one manager who we can realistically get to replace Bruce who could do a better job in the current circumstances then. Right now, anything could happen. We could well be in a relegation battle next season, so a safe pair of hands to help us stay "safely in the Championship" could be exactly what we need. We need to be very careful what we wish for at times like these. I totally believe that in our current predicament Bruce is the man for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Is it a good point though or is it just an easy statement to make? Our team vs Wolves away: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Terry, Chester, Hutton, Snodgrass, Hourihane, Whelan, Adomah, Davis, Kodjia Our team vs Wolves home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor, Snodgrass, Jedinak, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban Our team vs Cardiff away: Sam Johnstone Alan Hutton, James Chester, John Terry Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamady Henri Lansbury, Glenn Whelan, Joshua Onomah Gabriel Agbonlahor, Scott Hogan Our team vs Cardiff home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Jedinak, Tuanzebe, Snodgrass, Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban So in those two away games, that we lost, we had 2 strikers on the pitch. The two home games, which we won, we had 1 striker on the pitch. But SB 'sets us up negatively and to lose away from home', right? From the very small sample that you picked to prove your point, did you notice that we played 5 defenders in one of the away games? Forget the amount of strikers, 5 defenders against the mighty Cardiff is defensive overkill. Spoiler I should add, that I haven't looked back to the injury situation of the squad at the time of these games, or even the positions that the players actually played during the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Needing"safe hands" and all that hyperbole nonsense is why we are still "safely" in the Championship with folks like you claiming we need safe hands ffs. The goalposts will never stop moving for people who want Bruce to stay. Nah you're right, lets sack SB and go get one of the worlds greatest Managers. Honestly, they're all waiting for a call from Dr. T right now. How do the goalposts move? No one claims Bruce is anything other than what he is, an experienced Manager who, whether you like to admit it or not, probably knows more about football and football management than all of us combined. It's the 'Brouters' who love to shout and make as much noise as possible, often based on nothing other than opinion or assumption. When presented with facts they choose to ignore them and being making noise again instead, it's the new Trump-inspired approach to making yourself seem important, make lots of noise and lots of bullshit but if you say it for long enough and loud enough others might start believing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Just now, Okonokos said: Name one manager who we can realistically get to replace Bruce who could do a better job in the current circumstances then. We don't even know whether a different manager using a different style of play last season would have seen us finish higher than under Bruce. If someone had suggested the Fulham manager to you last season, they'd have got laughed at. Likewise if a little-known name like David Wagner or Nuno had been suggested, the usual "Bruce is the safe pair of hands" response would have been given. If we're sticking with Bruce, then I'll take the positives that that brings (his footballing contacts, stability, continuity, a defensive approach that will be equipped for avoiding relegation if we do lose a lot of players), but if he was to leave, I would be looking at a completely different set of positives with the prospect of a new manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rob182 said: From the very small sample that you picked to prove your point, did you notice that we played 5 defenders in one of the away games? Forget the amount of strikers, 5 defenders against the mighty Cardiff is defensive overkill. Reveal hidden contents I should add, that I haven't looked back to the injury situation of the squad at the time of these games, or even the positions that the players actually played during the games. Rob, I don't have a point to prove. It's others who seem hell bent on discrediting SB at any given opportunity, I'm merely countering that with some factual evidence that may suggest otherwise. Feel free to research further if you're not happy with the sample size but I felt the games vs the top two were probably the most relevant in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Rob182 said: We don't even know whether a different manager using a different style of play last season would have seen us finish higher than under Bruce. If someone had suggested the Fulham manager to you last season, they'd have got laughed at. Likewise if a little-known name like David Wagner or Nuno had been suggested, the usual "Bruce is the safe pair of hands" response would have been given. If we're sticking with Bruce, then I'll take the positives that that brings (his footballing contacts, stability, continuity, a defensive approach that will be equipped for avoiding relegation if we do lose a lot of players), but if he was to leave, I would be looking at a completely different set of positives with the prospect of a new manager. Whilst completely ignoring the possibility of it all going the other way completely. How are those blue sky's for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Is it a good point though or is it just an easy statement to make? Our team vs Wolves away: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Terry, Chester, Hutton, Snodgrass, Hourihane, Whelan, Adomah, Davis, Kodjia Our team vs Wolves home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Terry, Taylor, Snodgrass, Jedinak, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban Our team vs Cardiff away: Sam Johnstone Alan Hutton, James Chester, John Terry Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamady Henri Lansbury, Glenn Whelan, Joshua Onomah Gabriel Agbonlahor, Scott Hogan Our team vs Cardiff home: Johnstone, Elmohamady, Chester, Jedinak, Tuanzebe, Snodgrass, Whelan, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Grabban So in those two away games, that we lost, we had 2 strikers on the pitch. The two home games, which we won, we had 1 striker on the pitch. But SB 'sets us up negatively and to lose away from home', right? It doesn't matter how many people are physically in forward positions it's the mentality and game plan. Look at the difference in the two Wolves games. We were not even interested in having a shred of possession or getting anywhere near them whereas at home we were in their faces and trying to retain the ball from the off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) @bannedfromHandV Your factual evidence that Steve Bruce doesn't set teams up negatively away from home was to point to the amount of strikers, even though the amount of defenders showed a defensive approach. I hope you don't think I'm one of these Trump-like-supporters that shout and shout until no-one else can be heard. I'm just talking in facts and opinions, like you. Edited June 13, 2018 by Rob182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jareth said: Well TBF his league placing over two seasons has evidenced an improvement. oh, I thought the goal was promotion.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Whilst completely ignoring the possibility of it all going the other way completely. How are those blue sky's for you? How am I ignoring anything? I'm simply responding to the question put forward, the magical, unanswerable "Name me a manager that we can get that can do better?" question. It's a stupid argument to put forward, and I'm simply explaining why. I'm not ignoring anything from either side. I think your defence of Bruce has pushed you to attacking anyone who even comes close to criticism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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