vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, bobzy said: Apparently, our net spend since Steve Bruce has been in charge is -£11m. That is, we've received £11m more than we've spent. No team in the Championship has had a bigger investment in the last 15 months than -£11m? I don't believe you... Would you care to list all the departures vs. arrivals, and respective transfer fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The idea of Bruce being manager in the prem is laughable. We will come straight back down again, it really is a moot point anyway as we won't be getting promoted so won't need to worry about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, vreitti said: Why would I even need a comeback? I simply stated my opinion. Feel free to disagree pal. Your idea of investment is apparently only money spent on transfers. I have different opinion. Can we just leave it at that? You don't have to resort to childish insults. Well, your opinion is wrong, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: Well, your opinion is wrong, in my opinion. No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If we go up, whether Bruce stays or goes will for me depend on how we get there (eg the rest of the season) as well as who is available to replace him. If we limp up through the playoffs having come sixth would be different to smashing everyone from here on in and getting automatic promotion. And if we're swapping Bruce for one of the usual merry-go-round suspects then meh, but if it's someone who is genuinely a level above then get the axe out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, vreitti said: Would you care to list all the departures vs. arrivals, and respective transfer fees? He's bang on with 11 million I've taken the fees from transfermarkt.com... they look to be fairly acurate In Hogan - 9.45m Hourihane - 3.15m Bree - 3.15m Lansbury - 3.06m Bjarnason - 1.8m Whelan - 1.53m Elmo - 990k Total - 23.13m Out Gestede - 6.39m Ayew - 5.31m Westwood - 5.22 Veretout - 6.3m Baker - 3.9m Sanchez - 2.7m Amavi - 1.8m Bacuna - 1.35m Total 34.32 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, wilko154 said: He's bang on with 11 million I've taken the fees from transfermarkt.com... they look to be fairly acurate In Hogan - 9.45m Hourihane - 3.15m Bree - 3.15m Lansbury - 3.06m Bjarnason - 1.8m Whelan - 1.53m Elmo - 990k Total - 23.13m Out Gestede - 6.39m Ayew - 5.31m Westwood - 5.22 Veretout - 6.3m Baker - 3.9m Sanchez - 2.7m Amavi - 1.8m Bacuna - 1.35m Total 34.32 Thanks mate! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, vreitti said: Thanks mate! Soooooo, any kind of 'okay guys, I may have been a bit hasty' or 'ah okay guys, fair enough you got me there'?? Or, shall we just do this all over again in around a months time? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, AshVilla said: The idea of Bruce being manager in the prem is laughable. We will come straight back down again, it really is a moot point anyway as we won't be getting promoted so won't need to worry about it. Blues - 3x mid table finishes, 1x relegation (then promoted again following season) Wigan - 1x avoided relegation, 1x mid table Sunderland - 2x mid table Hull - 1x avoided relegation (+ FA Cup final), 1x relegation (promoted following season) is it really that laughable? OK it's not a record to shout from the rooftops about but when you consider the teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: Soooooo, any kind of 'okay guys, I may have been a bit hasty' or 'ah okay guys, fair enough you got me there'?? Or, shall we just do this all over again in around a months time? Please read my OP if you didn't get what I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, vreitti said: Please read my OP if you didn't get what I was trying to say. I think you were trying to say that we should include wages into "investment" too. Which I totally agree with. But if we're at £(11)m since Bruce came in, then I would guess that the extra wages we've incurred from Bruce's signings will be comfortably offset by the wages we've saved from outgoing players plus that £11m received from sales. I think a better argument would be that Bruce has an expensive squad. Whether he's made the signings or not, the value of the squad is large relative to the league we are in. That is pretty indisputable. So should Bruce be doing better given the value of the squad he has? Yes he probably should be. But the argument that Bruce has SPENT a huge amount of money since he's been here is demonstrably not true. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: But the argument that Bruce has SPENT a huge amount of money since he's been here is demonstrably not true. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, villa89 said: How many managers get sacked after getting their team promoted? The only example I can think of is when one particular Hull City manager resigned when he realised there would be no money to spend in the summer and fell out with the ownership. How many clubs the size of Villa have limped over the line to promotion after massive investment in the league? assuming we go up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, sne said: The next job would be to build a new team for the PL, and manage and develop it. I don't feel he's the man for it. He certainly isn't and even the 'Pro Bruce' people would probably agree with that. I'd just be shocked, and delighted, if he was sacked after getting promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, vreitti said: Why would I even need a comeback? I simply stated my opinion. Feel free to disagree pal. Your idea of investment is apparently only money spent on transfers. I have a different opinion. Can we just leave it at that? You don't have to resort to childish insults. Do you think the likes of Ayew, Gestede, Westwood, Bacuna, Amavi and whoever else I've forgotten...Gardner...Gollini...all played for free too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: Do you think the likes of Ayew, Gestede, Westwood, Bacuna, Amavi and whoever else I've forgotten...Gardner...Gollini...all played for free too? No I don't. I suspect our wage bill was quite unsustainable, given FFP and everything. In fact I think it still is, making promotion almost a necessity, otherwise we'll probably see an even greater turnover of players in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, vreitti said: No I don't. I suspect our wage bill was quite unsustainable, given FFP and everything. In fact I think it still is, making promotion almost a necessity, otherwise we'll probably see an even greater turnover of players in the summer. So really what it comes down to is that we've had a massive negative outlay and most likely have lowered our wage bill or about kept it the same since Bruce came in. I'm no Bruce fan, but it's impossible to argue he hasn't improved us since he's been here—even if it hasn't been so exciting. He's done that with a massively negative investment, as you've basically just been proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: So really what it comes down to is that we've had a massive negative outlay and most likely have lowered our wage bill or about kept it the same since Bruce came in. I don't think we've lowered the wage bill at all, quite the opposite. That being a major factor in Bruce not having had more money to spend, e.g. on transfers. Hence, the many loans. Quote I'm no Bruce fan, but it's impossible to argue he hasn't improved us since he's been here—even if it hasn't been so exciting. He's done that with a massively negative investment, as you've basically just been proven. He has (slightly) IMO improved the squad. Results have been decent, but I really don't know who to compare with, since RDM only got 11 games. Best if I don't say anything about the performances. The net spend has been proven to be negative. "Investment" is an altogether different issue, and far more complicated, again IMHO. Edited January 11, 2018 by vreitti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hogan cost a bit. Other than that with Samba and Terry in on frees. Whelan, Hourihane, Lansbury, Bree, Bedeau, Elmohamady and Bjarnason all in for nominal amounts by todays standards. Amazing business swapping Ayew for Taylor imo. SJ, Onomah and Snodgrass have been useful loan signings. As for the departures under Bruce - Gestede, McCormack, Tshibola, Cissokho, Gollini, Westwood, Ayew, Gardner, Kozak, Bacuna, Sanchez, Veretout, Gil, Baker, Amavi. That's 15 out and even rough estimates would guess between £400k - £500k a week on wages there. I'd be surprised if our championship signings under Bruce add up to that on the wage sheet. Who knows what Terry, Jedinak, Whelan, Elmo and Taylor are on? but Hourihane, Lansbury, Bjarnason, Samba, Bedeau and Bree aren't going to be on Premier League wages imo and who knows what % we're paying on the loanees. With the difference of a drop in £7m on last years parachute payments (16-17 £40m/17-18 £33m) affecting turnover I think it's pretty safe to assume we've cut our cloth accordingly. With the parachute payments dropping by £19m for us next year (to around £14m) that's a whole bunch of saving if we don't go up that surpasses whatever Samba, Terry, Hutton, Agbonlahor, Onomah, Snodgrass, SJ and Bunn are on by a long way. At the high end of any estimate that would save us around £5-6m just having their wages off the books but that leaves us staring at another £13-14m coming from somewhere. Gollini, Richards, McCormack, Gil, Gardner and Tshibola leaving in the summer would do us great - however much we know they wont all go in reality - but even if they did we wont be getting much back on our investments there and we'd be lucky to get anywhere near £14m in saving wages and/or fees. Selling one of the big players and trimming the squad will become the priority imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Poor Bruce, has had to work wonders with a shoe string budget.... Over achieving... almost. Edited January 11, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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