Steve Bruce

[striker]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think our players are doing ok thanks in a style that we are playing.....He doesn't need protecting.

If you are asking me do they have the technical ability of the Key Wolves players, sorry in the main they don't.....There are exceptions of course....Kodge,Albert, Callum and in defence JT

I think if we attempted to play the same as Wolves, we would get undone.

but its hypothetical, because we don't and we are not likely to find out.

Managers play a way in which THEY feel is the best way to reach the Holy Grail....points.

I am not in a position to tell Steve Bruce,Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce they are wrong....even our own John Gregory had the same tendencies.

IMO unless you have the very best technical players around, to be able to play the fluent game, you are in danger of finding yourself between a rock and a hard place and results go up and down like a whores draws.

As an example.....Brentford, played some decent stuff last night, brought on another forward when a defender may have been the prudent option and then capitulated in injury time.

I don't want that kind of football.....I want resillient, robust, well organised football, that I have seen much of ,over the years at VP.....to secure results.

The better football WILL be borne out of those results.

ps in fact the more time passes, i think stronger that Steve is on the right path.

Really the point of this debate is whether Santos or someone like him could come to Villa and get the current squad playing more progressively than Steve Bruce. You think not and you are entitled to that opinion.

That opinion, according to your previous posts is based on the assumption that the current crop of Villa players do not possess the same technical ability as those in the Wolves squad and thats where we differ.

I find that opinion surprising when you actually see the players Villa have who are more than comfortable on the ball which I quoted in my previous posts and indeed forgot to mention Terry. I am even more surprised when you view the latest video coming out of Man City with Pep coaching Sterling. While i'm not suggesting that Santos is on the same level as Pep coaching wise, most technical managers/coaches can and will improve their player's technical ability on the training pitch if they are looking them to play a certain way if need be.

The only player i'd take from Wolves is Neves but i'm not sure how effective he would be in a Steve Bruce team?

So considering all of the above I am at the very least open to the view that someone like Santos with the current players available to him could in fact implement a more progressive style at the Villa.

Again as previously stated the intention is not to bash Bruce or say that one style is better than the other although in head to heads playing against more progressive teams Bruce has, for the most part, come up short. That concerns me if Villa don't achieve automatic promotion and become reliant on the playoffs to gain promotion.

Edited November 28, 2017 by striker

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I must have missed that so I'll say this - it's all well and good wanting to implement a system like that and in an ideal world fine. But when you're entire plan revolves around getting back into the Premier League as fast as is humanly possible it's a big gamble to take. It could take a LONG time to get it right. 

If it was easy, every club would do it. Things are happening behind the scenes though, we are told. 

Yes I wasn't suggesting it was done in the next few weeks.  It would take a long time to put a such a system in place.  If we don't go up this season we'll probably be afforded that time in the Championship. Without Steve Bruce of course.  (last line added to keep on topic).

[TRO]

3 hours ago, striker said:

Really the point of this debate is whether Santos or someone like him could come to Villa and get the current squad playing more progressively than Steve Bruce. You think not and you are entitled to that opinion.

That opinion, according to your previous posts is based on the assumption that the current crop of Villa players do not possess the same technical ability as those in the Wolves squad and thats where we differ.

I find that opinion surprising when you actually see the players Villa have who are more than comfortable on the ball which I quoted in my previous posts and indeed forgot to mention Terry. I am even more surprised when you view the latest video coming out of Man City with Pep coaching Sterling. While i'm not suggesting that Santos is on the same level as Pep coaching wise, most technical managers/coaches can and will improve their player's technical ability on the training pitch if they are looking them to play a certain way if need be.

The only player i'd take from Wolves is Neves but i'm not sure how effective he would be in a Steve Bruce team?

So considering all of the above I am at the very least open to the view that someone like Santos with the current players available to him could in fact implement a more progressive style at the Villa.

Again as previously stated the intention is not to bash Bruce or say that one style is better than the other although in head to heads playing against more progressive teams Bruce has, for the most part, come up short. That concerns me if Villa don't achieve automatic promotion and become reliant on the playoffs to gain promotion.

 Yeah, i'm comfortable with most of that....but remember its not just ball control, its pace too.

look we all know Pepe is exceptional and i like his insistence on one on one tuition, delph has benifitted already.....but we are talking about arguably the best there is....and even he recognises he needs the best players.

Back to us

its all a bit hypothetical.......

However.......i'm an ipswich fan for the next 15 minutes.

 

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, striker said:

Really the point of this debate is whether Santos or someone like him could come to Villa and get the current squad playing more progressively than Steve Bruce. You think not and you are entitled to that opinion.

That opinion, according to your previous posts is based on the assumption that the current crop of Villa players do not possess the same technical ability as those in the Wolves squad and thats where we differ.

I find that opinion surprising when you actually see the players Villa have who are more than comfortable on the ball which I quoted in my previous posts and indeed forgot to mention Terry. I am even more surprised when you view the latest video coming out of Man City with Pep coaching Sterling. While i'm not suggesting that Santos is on the same level as Pep coaching wise, most technical managers/coaches can and will improve their player's technical ability on the training pitch if they are looking them to play a certain way if need be.

The only player i'd take from Wolves is Neves but i'm not sure how effective he would be in a Steve Bruce team?

So considering all of the above I am at the very least open to the view that someone like Santos with the current players available to him could in fact implement a more progressive style at the Villa.

Again as previously stated the intention is not to bash Bruce or say that one style is better than the other although in head to heads playing against more progressive teams Bruce has, for the most part, come up short. That concerns me if Villa don't achieve automatic promotion and become reliant on the playoffs to gain promotion.

I applaud your restraint , certainly not a bashing ,just a slight subtle bruising . A great post nonetheless. 

[Jarpie]

If/when we replace Bruce, I'd like that to be Bernd Schuster, he is crazy but at least he is known for attacking football, to put it lightly

[carewjust4u]

Saw this on Twitter.

 

 

 

[Tomaszk]

18 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

Saw this on Twitter.

 

 

We're playing outside the top flight, with a ridiculously expensive squad. No Villa manager has ever had that before.

[omariqy]

32 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

We're playing outside the top flight, with a ridiculously expensive squad. No Villa manager has ever had that before.

Playing devil's advocate, this is true but we have played outside of the top flight before. We've also had injuries to key players. For example our team against Ipswich can't have cost more than £25m/£30m. Not ridiculous. This is also takes into account our terrible form last season. 

[GENTLEMAN]

Maybe Bruce has found his true managerial home here?

[lapal_fan]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

We're playing outside the top flight, with a ridiculously expensive squad. No Villa manager has ever had that before.

In our 129 year league playing history, we've been out of the top division 12 times. 

So yes, we have. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

We're playing outside the top flight, with a ridiculously expensive squad. No Villa manager has ever had that before.

So what was di matteos excuse? How many wins did we have from the start of the relegation year to point of di matteo being sacked?

It might have been a weaker league but the circumstances were equally as tough

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

We're playing outside the top flight, with a ridiculously expensive squad. No Villa manager has ever had that before.

Really?

May want to read up on the history of the club, we've been further down the league previously than we are now!

[sne]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Really?

May want to read up on the history of the club, we've been further down the league previously than we are now!

Pretty sure he was referring to us being in such a strong financial position compared to other clubs in the division rather than to us never having played in the lower divisions before?

[lapal_fan]

16 minutes ago, sne said:

Pretty sure he was referring to us being in such a strong financial position compared to other clubs in the division rather than to us never having played in the lower divisions before?

When we went into Div 3 for 2 years on the trot (a total of 8 years OUTSIDE of the top Division) we were in the same position really. 

We've always had weight, because we've always had big stadiums etc.  which held as much weight now as PL TV money. 

So no, he's still wrong. 

[sne]

14 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

When we went into Div 3 for 2 years on the trot (a total of 8 years OUTSIDE of the top Division) we were in the same position really. 

We've always had weight, because we've always had big stadiums etc.  which held as much weight now as PL TV money. 

So no, he's still wrong. 

Fair enough.

I have no where near enough knowledge about our and other teams financial realities from back in those days so I'll take your word for it.

 

[lapal_fan]

Just now, sne said:

Fair enough.

I have no where near enough knowledge about our and other teams financial realities from back in those days so I'll take your word for it.

 

Nor do I in all honesty, but some of the teams in the same league as us are;

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GAvg	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	Preston North End	46	22	17	7	63	39	1.615	61	Promoted to the Second Division
2	Fulham	46	24	12	10	68	41	1.659	60
3	Halifax Town	46	22	12	12	74	55	1.345	56
4	Aston Villa	46	19	15	12	54	46	1.174	53
5	Chesterfield	46	17	17	12	66	38	1.737	51
6	Bristol Rovers	46	19	13	14	69	50	1.38	51
7	Mansfield Town	46	18	15	13	64	62	1.032	51
8	Rotherham United	46	17	16	13	64	60	1.067	50
9	Wrexham	46	18	13	15	72	65	1.108	49
10	Torquay United	46	19	11	16	54	57	0.947	49
11	Swansea City	46	15	16	15	59	56	1.054	46
12	Barnsley	46	17	11	18	49	52	0.942	45
13	Shrewsbury Town	46	16	13	17	58	62	0.935	45
14	Brighton & Hove Albion	46	14	16	16	50	47	1.064	44
15	Plymouth Argyle	46	12	19	15	63	63	1	43
16	Rochdale	46	14	15	17	61	68	0.897	43
17	Port Vale	46	15	12	19	52	59	0.881	42
18	Tranmere Rovers	46	10	22	14	45	55	0.818	42
19	Bradford City	46	13	14	19	49	62	0.79	40
20	Walsall	46	14	11	21	51	57	0.895	39
21	Reading	46	14	11	21	48	85	0.565	39	Relegated to the Fourth Divisi

 

And we still had attendances of 40,000! 

[sne]

Just now, lapal_fan said:

Nor do I in all honesty, but some of the teams in the same league as us are;

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GAvg	Pts	Qualification or relegation
1	Preston North End	46	22	17	7	63	39	1.615	61	Promoted to the Second Division
2	Fulham	46	24	12	10	68	41	1.659	60
3	Halifax Town	46	22	12	12	74	55	1.345	56
4	Aston Villa	46	19	15	12	54	46	1.174	53
5	Chesterfield	46	17	17	12	66	38	1.737	51
6	Bristol Rovers	46	19	13	14	69	50	1.38	51
7	Mansfield Town	46	18	15	13	64	62	1.032	51
8	Rotherham United	46	17	16	13	64	60	1.067	50
9	Wrexham	46	18	13	15	72	65	1.108	49
10	Torquay United	46	19	11	16	54	57	0.947	49
11	Swansea City	46	15	16	15	59	56	1.054	46
12	Barnsley	46	17	11	18	49	52	0.942	45
13	Shrewsbury Town	46	16	13	17	58	62	0.935	45
14	Brighton & Hove Albion	46	14	16	16	50	47	1.064	44
15	Plymouth Argyle	46	12	19	15	63	63	1	43
16	Rochdale	46	14	15	17	61	68	0.897	43
17	Port Vale	46	15	12	19	52	59	0.881	42
18	Tranmere Rovers	46	10	22	14	45	55	0.818	42
19	Bradford City	46	13	14	19	49	62	0.79	40
20	Walsall	46	14	11	21	51	57	0.895	39
21	Reading	46	14	11	21	48	85	0.565	39	Relegated to the Fourth Divisi

 

And we still had attendances of 40,000! 

Wow, that's pretty amazing!

Back then attendances actually mattered in a financial point unlike now when it at best leads to better sponsor deals.

[Vive_La_Villa]

18 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

Saw this on Twitter.

 

 

Dont start this again! 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

In our 129 year league playing history, we've been out of the top division 12 times. 

So yes, we have. 

On those occasions have we had the resources to attract players and build a squad better than nearly all other teams in the league? 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

In our 129 year league playing history, we've been out of the top division 12 times. 

So yes, we have. 

"With a ridiculously expensive squad " ?