DCJonah Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Just gon' leave this here... And yet if we aren't in the premier league next season then he's failed and it means nothing. This season is going much better than I thought it would after the first few games, and credit to bruce for the run we are on, but we are still not in the position the club targeted before the season began. Also how many other managers have had the resources and ability to attract the best at their level? Edited November 25, 2017 by DCJonah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Just gon' leave this here... This is just silly bro. We are in the Championship not Premier League. These stats means jack shit for me, in fact i expected better results this season. I'll judge him if he even get's us to the Premier League, then let's talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 25, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: So he is better manager for us than one that delivers the Division one title or European Cup or any trophy because his win percentage is higher? I know you don't mean that I and I don't want to take the win percentage achievement away from him. But right now it means F all. I'm guessing my edit went in too late, but you've put the caveat in for me in your second line - cheers for that, as you're right that I don't mean that. It's all much more nuanced, even if we're talking about European Cup wins you can't really say Barton was a better managers than Saunders. If, come the end of the season, his win %age is our best ever I don't think it would be unfair to say he's in our top 3 of most effective managers - with Saunders and Graham Taylor. When he took over, and even right now, we needed someone effective. The remit right now, at least AFAIC, is to get this club out of the Championship or else we're going to be here for a long, long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Well no. We're in the Championship and he has had to work with the resources of a Championship club. Vs other Championship clubs. You just backed up what I said.So shouldn't he be compared with other 2nd tier manager for that stat? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Well no. We're in the Championship and he has had to work with the resources of a Championship club. Vs other Championship clubs. And his resources have been better than probably all but one other team at his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I think we need a minimum of 4p from the upcoming games against Leeds, Derby and Sheffield U. Anything else and it's the playoffs at best. Gonna be tough, as both Leeds and Derby seem to be playing well at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted November 25, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: And yet if we aren't in the premier league next season then he's failed and it means nothing. That kinda goes without saying though really doesn't it? We can only judge him on the here and now, and even accounting for that awful run at the turn of 2017 he's still got an impressive record. We were so unutterably crap for 4 years before he showed up and yet here we are, winning football matches. Victory is supposed to taste sweet, but on VT we often seem to want to pour lemon juice all over it instead. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, vreitti said: I think we need a minimum of 4p from the upcoming games against Leeds, Derby and Sheffield U. Anything else and it's the playoffs at best. Gonna be tough, as both Leeds and Derby seem to be playing well at the moment. With that kind of return we're sure to breach FFP! While I agree it will be a struggle if we lost the next 3 games and for the record I don't think we will. How on earth will it mean it's play offs at best with about 20+ games to go? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I’m embarrassed to be a Villa fan sometimes when I read a lot of what other Villa fans post/think/feel. Like that song a few years ago “you can be addicted to a certain kind of sadness”... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: True but surely you have to compare managers in like for like leagues. Otherwise it's meaningless. But we are only playing teams in our own league against teams with our own abilities, so it is relevant. if we were playing teams in the premier league or division one, thats when it would be not like for like. playing against similar opposition in your own league is more or less like for like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Genie said: I’m embarrassed to be a Villa fan sometimes when I read a lot of what other Villa fans post/think/feel. Like that song a few years ago “you can be addicted to a certain kind of sadness”... It's good to be optimistic and positive but at the same time you should be grounded to avoid disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: But we are only playing teams in our own league against teams with our own abilities, so it is relevant. if we were playing teams in the premier league or division one, thats when it would be not like for like. playing against similar opposition in your own league is more or less like for like But my post was about comparing Bruce's stats as a villa manager with other Villa managers in the past. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, DCJonah said: And his resources have been better than probably all but one other team at his level. In which case you are denying the stats validity altogether, which is fine. So no argument to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: You just backed up what I said.So shouldn't he be compared with other 2nd tier manager for that stat? No. Because presumably a top flight managers record will be against other top flight managers/teams. I just assumed you could make that leap yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: With that kind of return we're sure to breach FFP! While I agree it will be a struggle if we lost the next 3 games and for the record I don't think we will. How on earth will it mean it's play offs at best with about 20+ games to go? Just my opinion mate. Of course I'm not saying anything is definite at this stage, regardless of December. I'm just so sick n tired of this entire debate. Tbh I'm relieved we have these tough games coming up now. I just want to know if we have what it takes, how Bruce handles these games, how the players cope with the pressure, etc. Bruce has given me some much needed hope, and I didn't think it'd ever happen, but now I want more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Earlier in the season after the Boro game I thought there was no way back for Bruce. He's done really well for us since then. Credit where it is due. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: No. Because presumably a top flight managers record will be against other top flight managers/teams. I just assumed you could make that leap yourself. Either I'm being stupid or I've had to much to drink. How do you compare a managers win percentage at a club with other managers at the same club even though they have all managed at different levels. (Which is what the original post did). E.g. Manger 1 manged villa in division 4 and had win percentage of 95% and won the league. Manager 2 manager us in Premier League and had win percentage of 45% and came second. Does this mean Manager 1 is our most successful manager of all time? As for the bold part, I tried to keep my posts respectful. It's a shame you couldn't offer the same courtesy. I guess that's Villatalk for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 We're only two points off the two points per game target Bruce has alluded to previously this season. I think that getting to 92 points will probably see us go up automatically so we really need to keep this run going now. Win the next two games and we will be bang on the two points per game target. Come on lads - don't let us down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: But my post was about comparing Bruce's stats as a villa manager with other Villa managers in the past. Am I missing something? A win in any division is a win against similar opposition. percentages are the same percentages in any league, so in my view you can compare. sure in the prem you are playing against better players.....but our own are better too. its all as long as it is short. If you appraise a manager in division 2 his wins will be in his division so the ratio is just as relevant as a win ratio in the prem. the ratio has no relevance to the standard of play.....just wins v games. or am i missing something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted November 25, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2017 You can't compare win percentages across leagues. It doesn't work. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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