Steve Bruce

[Jareth]

11 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

He took over whilst we were 22nd in the league.

20 places and god knows how many points away from auto-promotion.

 

I think he was hired last year to save us from relegation, something he achieved and then some, I'd say he overachieved last season, Steve Bruce, the messiah, long may he reign.

Sunderland this year, who have basically done everything we have done, are an example of what could have been had Bruce not come in. Their plight really does put last season into some perspective. 

[TRO]

I think to expect promotion in the manner some do,is to disregard the efforts of every club in this league.

its one thing to have confidence and its one thing to have belief in what we are doing.

but to just blatantly expect to go up.....is disrespectful to the opponent.

The right values will get us up, not throwing teddies out of prams when we lose.

We have gone through an horrendous time of mismanagement at every aspect of our club, you do not wash that away in a whim.....it is hard work and patience that delivers.

We talk about last season.....it was a quagmire of turning a sinking ship in to respectability....anyone thinking that is a foundation for promotion, hasn't lived through hard times.

We were broken.

This man is not a messiah, but in terms of pragmatism, he has done a bloody good job for us, so far.....and for a manager who has managed the Blues.....He has shown us a barrow load of respect.

I think our manager is good guy.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by TRO

[srsmithusa]

TRO.  We will never know if we could have gone up last year with a manager that took a different approach.  I think we could have.  But not because I disregard the quality and intent of the competition.  I respect how a manager can change a team.  And with all due respect, I don’t throw anything out of the pram when we lose.  I get frustrated when managers, players, and fans tolerate and excuse a failure to compete.  When a lack of tenacity and passion and drive is traded for an acceptance of mediocrity and labeled “stability.”   The reason our opponents deserve respect is that they are committed to excellence and to winning.  We are frustratingly comforted by being “stable” and in “safe hands.”

to keep in context, recent results are good and he should stay as long as we continue to climb.  That does not mean that a greater commitment to compete would not have had us here much sooner.  I’m sure he’s a fine person. But he permits players to coast and fail to move off the ball, and start again next match, repeatedly.  I don’t think he tells them mediocrity and tentative and cautious is OK.  But his actions say otherwise.  

[Lerner's Driver]

McCarthy on Bruce:

"It would appear there’s been lots of mistakes made there in terms of changing managers, signing loads of players, and Steve had to get his own players in, and the players that are in there into the mould that he wants. He’s done that and it would have been the most ridiculous decision to get shut of Steve. His track record as manager in the Championship on the whole is very good at what he does."

[Demitri_C]

19 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

McCarthy on Bruce:

"It would appear there’s been lots of mistakes made there in terms of changing managers, signing loads of players, and Steve had to get his own players in, and the players that are in there into the mould that he wants. He’s done that and it would have been the most ridiculous decision to get shut of Steve. His track record as manager in the Championship on the whole is very good at what he does."

On reflection when you look nack after the boro/brentford games, he is right.

[srsmithusa]

Just to be clear, when Bruce says his target is promotion at first asking, he’s just saying what he is supposed to say to the press and public.  But when an opposition manager says Bruce is wonderful, it’s just gospel truth?

[Lerner's Driver]

11 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Just to be clear, when Bruce says his target is promotion at first asking, he’s just saying what he is supposed to say to the press and public.  But when an opposition manager says Bruce is wonderful, it’s just gospel truth?

You might see that, it wasn't my point. I haven't been following your recent posts to know what you're driving at.

I was simply quoting Mick McCarthy, who has no particular reason for saying what he does, unless there's a motive I've not understood.

[vreitti]

45 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

You might see that, it wasn't my point. I haven't been following your recent posts to know what you're driving at.

I was simply quoting Mick McCarthy, who has no particular reason for saying what he does, unless there's a motive I've not understood.

Opposing managers always have an ulterior motive. I doubt they're best friends. It could be anything really, but I'm guessing he's bigging up Bruce if for no other reason, to just induce some complacency.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, srsmithusa said:

Just to be clear, when Bruce says his target is promotion at first asking, he’s just saying what he is supposed to say to the press and public.  But when an opposition manager says Bruce is wonderful, it’s just gospel truth?

You could say vice versa. 

[Lerner's Driver]

11 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Opposing managers always have an ulterior motive. I doubt they're best friends. It could be anything really, but I'm guessing he's bigging up Bruce if for no other reason, to just induce some complacency.

I think it's said out of genuine respect for a similar, wily old campaigner, actually.

It seems unlikely that McCarthy's tactical master plan is to fool Steve Bruce into thinking he's already won the match by saying a few nice things about him.

[vreitti]

Just now, Lerner's Driver said:

It seems unlikely that McCarthy's tactical master plan is to fool Steve Bruce into thinking he's already won the match by saying a few nice things about him.

Yup, that'll be just about the most tactical he's ever been. Still trumps our Messiah though in that respect! 

[sne]

14 hours ago, Jareth said:

Sunderland this year, who have basically done everything we have done, are an example of what could have been had Bruce not come in. Their plight really does put last season into some perspective. 

Think Xia coming in replacing Lerner and throwing a shed load of money at the club also helped a bit 

If not for Xia then I think we'd been exactly were Sunderland is, regardless of Bruce, Di Matteo or whomever would have been or manager.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TRO.  We will never know if we could have gone up last year with a manager that took a different approach.  I think we could have.  But not because I disregard the quality and intent of the competition.  I respect how a manager can change a team.  And with all due respect, I don’t throw anything out of the pram when we lose.  I get frustrated when managers, players, and fans tolerate and excuse a failure to compete.  When a lack of tenacity and passion and drive is traded for an acceptance of mediocrity and labeled “stability.”   The reason our opponents deserve respect is that they are committed to excellence and to winning.  We are frustratingly comforted by being “stable” and in “safe hands.”

to keep in context, recent results are good and he should stay as long as we continue to climb.  That does not mean that a greater commitment to compete would not have had us here much sooner.  I’m sure he’s a fine person. But he permits players to coast and fail to move off the ball, and start again next match, repeatedly.  I don’t think he tells them mediocrity and tentative and cautious is OK.  But his actions say otherwise.  

I understand your points and agree.

but we don't know that he condones a lack lustre performance.....that is just assuming, and we all know what assume stands for.....judging by his after match comments, he doesn't, but what do you do, put them in the stocks and throw tomatoes outside villa park.

you are right we will never know, but i still think my points about demise are dismissed far too easily.

We sometimes look at others like Wolves and come to the wrong conclusion.....if it was so easy, why have they languished in this division for so long......their fans must have been miffed seeing Albion go down and straight back, leaving them trapped.

We will get back, but it is far from easy and teams in this division have a go, they put a shíft in and if we think that our level of skill will see us through without the graft, we are kidding ourselves.

I take each game as it comes and feel satisfied with every win.

today, will not be easy.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

Think Xia coming in replacing Lerner and throwing a shed load of money at the club also helped a bit 

If not for Xia then I think we'd been exactly were Sunderland is, regardless of Bruce, Di Matteo or whomever would have been or manager.

It requires a concerted effort.....owner, manager, coaches, scouts.

They all need to be in sync and have savvy,pulling in the same direction.....no weak links.

Edited November 25, 2017 by TRO

[sne]

Just now, TRO said:

It requires a concerted effort.....owner, manager, coaches, scouts.

They all need to be in sync and pulling in the same direction.....no weak links.

That is the worry yes.

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

Just to be clear, when Bruce says his target is promotion at first asking, he’s just saying what he is supposed to say to the press and public.  But when an opposition manager says Bruce is wonderful, it’s just gospel truth?

Cynicism can consume folk.

at the end of the day we all believe what we want to believe.

I just happen to think its our duty to give ourselves an easy time, not a hard time.

when i was younger, i was my own worst enemy when it come to supporting Villa.

I had to take a break from it and dispensed with my season ticket for c 8 seasons.

I have returned now, determined not to give myself such a hard time with it.

We all need to concentrate more on the positives, for no other reason but to respect ourselves and our joy.

[Jareth]

43 minutes ago, sne said:

Think Xia coming in replacing Lerner and throwing a shed load of money at the club also helped a bit 

Yeah totally fair point. That said, under RDM we found ourselves back to our comfortable old ways of losing and were spiralling down, that includes the fans who were just so fed up and could not see anything to look forward to. Bruce was right to come in and try to stop the rot first and foremost, he got pelters for it as it was boring (but it was a vital stage towards starting to win again) and it is exactly what Sunderland need to do. True though that other managers could have achieved this also, I think Coleman will be doing a Bruce pronto.

[VILLAMARV]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Cynicism can consume folk.

at the end of the day we all believe what we want to believe.

I just happen to think its our duty to give ourselves an easy time, not a hard time.

when i was younger, i was my own worst enemy when it come to supporting Villa.

I had to take a break from it and dispensed with my season ticket for c 8 seasons.

I have returned now, determined not to give myself such a hard time with it.

We all need to concentrate more on the positives, for no other reason but to respect ourselves and our joy.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TRO.  We will never know if we could have gone up last year with a manager that took a different approach.  I think we could have.  But not because I disregard the quality and intent of the competition.  I respect how a manager can change a team.  And with all due respect, I don’t throw anything out of the pram when we lose.  I get frustrated when managers, players, and fans tolerate and excuse a failure to compete.  When a lack of tenacity and passion and drive is traded for an acceptance of mediocrity and labeled “stability.”   The reason our opponents deserve respect is that they are committed to excellence and to winning.  We are frustratingly comforted by being “stable” and in “safe hands.”

to keep in context, recent results are good and he should stay as long as we continue to climb.  That does not mean that a greater commitment to compete would not have had us here much sooner.  I’m sure he’s a fine person. But he permits players to coast and fail to move off the ball, and start again next match, repeatedly.  I don’t think he tells them mediocrity and tentative and cautious is OK.  But his actions say otherwise.  

There is subtle difference between complacency and respecting your opponent.

it would do well for us all to know the difference.

[Grasshopper]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

Anyone who thought we could get promoted last year was living in cloud cuckoo land.

you may have listened to ambitious claims that some folk think was expected.....but in reality a pipe dream.

He had to say that was his target, what else could he realistically say.....they have to fill football grounds.

 

I think you are Massively underestimating the intent from last season.

The Board appointed RDM and invested heavily with the absolute intent to get us promoted.

After 10/11 games we were looking far from promotion candidates and they made a decision to replace a manager with a record of 1 promotion from this league with another with a record of 4 promotions from this league.

I repeat

FOUR PROMOTIONS

The board invested further in January, yes to continually improve the squad (who wouldn‘t), but to push the expenditure to the point that meant - Failing to get promotion would leave us with nearly zero leeway regarding ffp for future investments whilst still in this league - suggests more than 50/50 that promotion was still the intended target at the point where the jan window closed.

At some point Bruce stated 10th was the target, but maybe my memory serves me wrong, it wasnt the presser after the 3-0 defeat to Brentford the day we bought Hogan for 15mill (or was it 5/10/12mill?)

Reality dictates, we didnt get promoted, Bruce was given another chance. These are facts AFTER the decisions and intent initially set out by the board.