Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: A win in any division is a win against similar opposition. percentages are the same percentages in any league, so in my view you can compare. sure in the prem you are playing against better players.....but our own are better too. its all as long as it is short. If you appraise a manager in division 2 his wins will be in his division so the ratio is just as relevant as a win ratio in the prem. the ratio has no relevance to the standard of play.....just wins v games. or am i missing something? But if you are one of the strongest clubs in that league due to resources and stature then of course your win percentage will be high. When Wolves and Leeds destroyed league 1 in recent history the managers at that time must have the best win percentages in the clubs history. That doesn't mean they were top managers in the history of those clubs! I get where you are coming from and I respect what Bruce is doing. I really do. But that stat about him having best win percentage in or history is not only pointless, it also shows how far we have fallen because he is breaking records and we are not even top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: You can't compare win percentages across leagues. It doesn't work. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: A win in any division is a win against similar opposition. percentages are the same percentages in any league, so in my view you can compare. sure in the prem you are playing against better players.....but our own are better too. its all as long as it is short. If you appraise a manager in division 2 his wins will be in his division so the ratio is just as relevant as a win ratio in the prem. the ratio has no relevance to the standard of play.....just wins v games. or am i missing something? Possibly that we are in a for the club unique financial position of being the "Man City" of the division? I'm just happy we are on the right path out of this forsaken league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: But if you are one of the strongest clubs in that league due to resources and stature then of course your win percentage will be high. When Wolves and Leeds destroyed league 1 in recent history the managers at that time must have the best win percentages in the clubs history. That doesn't mean they were top managers in the history of those clubs! I get where you are coming from and I respect what Bruce is doing. I really do. But that stat about him having best win percentage in or history is not only pointless, it also shows how far we have fallen because he is breaking records and we are not even top. I think respectfully, you are confusing different elements over various platforms. if Pepe guardiola has a 50% win ratio in the prem and steve Bruce has a 50 % win ratio in the championship....you have to make your own mind up about who is the best manager.....i guess many other factors come in to play, like previous history. but in terms of winning in their respective leagues , they are doing the same, with each one having different challenges, different advantages and disadvanatages. but the win ratio is what it is......and in this example, pepe has done no better than Steve. I guess its fair to say from a managers perspective, if you have limited resource, it is more likely to secure a higher percentage in the lower division.....maybe RDM might not agree. The validity is down to what the recipient is prepared to glean from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: Dave, i think many folk were in favour of Hogan, so to now deem it as a mistake that was avoidable is very convenient. Well if you think that professional football clubs should use fans opinions as a sounding board for spending millions of pounds, I stand corrected TRO. I thought that the rest of what I wrote was supportive but balanced and none of the praise I gave was given begrudgingly. I now see that unless Steve Bruce is now referred to on this thread with gushing reverence then the contributor’s opinion should be dismissed. I hope the wins keep coming at a rate until the end of the season that gets us promoted and then boy will I gush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, sne said: Possibly that we are in a for the club unique financial position of being the "Man City" of the division? I'm just happy we are on the right path out of this forsaken league. Hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth said: Earlier in the season after the Boro game I thought there was no way back for Bruce. He's done really well for us since then. Credit where it is due. Likewise. Up until then , 7 points from 7 games. Scored 7, conceded 9. Relegation form. Since then, 28 points from 12 games. Scored 21, conceded 8. Title winning form. Thats one heckuva contrast ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I think respectfully, you are confusing different elements over various platforms. if Pepe guardiola has a 50% win ratio in the prem and steve Bruce has a 50 % win ratio in the championship....you have to make your own mind up about who is the best manager.....i guess many other factors come in to play, like previous history. but in terms of winning in their respective leagues , they are doing the same, with each one having different challenges, different advantages and disadvanatages. but the win ratio is what it is......and in this example, pepe has done no better than Steve. I guess its fair to say from a managers perspective, if you have limited resource, it is more likely to secure a higher percentage in the lower division.....maybe RDM might not agree. The validity is down to what the recipient is prepared to glean from it. Fair enough but to keep it simple his win percentage is completely irrelevant and pointless to us if we don't get promoted. I'm sure that's something we both agre on? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: Likewise. Up until then , 7 points from 7 games. Scored 7, conceded 9. Relegation form. Since then, 28 points from 12 games. Scored 21, conceded 8. Title winning form. Thats one heckuva contrast ! Adomah was a Sub for 5 of those first 7 games, not involved in the other 2 through injury. Ever present in the 12 since ........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 No, i don't think fans should be a sounding board.....but once the decision had been made most fans supported it....don't be coy Dave there are many fans who argue well and certainly fervent about their views....so they shouldn't be ignored. i understand that the clubs decisions should not be connected but when they sign a player who we all agree with but it don't work out ,its a bit rich to be critical. ...but clubs sign players and they don't work out, we are not the first or the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, terrytini said: Adomah was a Sub for 5 of those first 7 games, not involved in the other 2 through injury. Ever present in the 12 since ........ And scored two more goals than SHA this season! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Fair enough but to keep it simple his win percentage is completely irrelevant and pointless to us if we don't get promoted. I'm sure that's something we both agre on? Totally agree......and most of what you write i agree with too. Edited November 25, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) I would add - for completeness - Snodgrass - joined us late and played in only 1 of those 7. Ever present in the 12. His presence on the right has coincided with Adomahs form on the left, and he had another assist today ( when he was motm for me). Another good buy by Bruce. I’d say it’s an area he’s done well. Johnstone, Elmo, Whelan, Taylor, Terry, Snodgrass, Onomah, Hourihane - all good acquisitions and regulars. For me Lansbury is decent and will play a part. Bree....I won’t judge on the limited time he’s had. Hogan.....yes there is a debate about how we use him but....has to be classed a failure. And Thor, no, not for me sorry ! AND Samba !! Who makes me chuckle......But is actually proving no worse than Baker. Edited November 25, 2017 by terrytini Forgot the Big Man !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, terrytini said: Adomah was a Sub for 5 of those first 7 games, not involved in the other 2 through injury. Ever present in the 12 since ........ I defend Bruce a lot... but how we were starting Gabby ahead of Albert at the start of the season is beyond me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Totally agree......and most of what you write i agree with too. How was your trip to B6 today? Good atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, terrytini said: I would add - for completeness - Snodgrass - joined us late and played in only 1 of those 7. Ever present in the 12. His presence on the right has coincided with Adomahs form on the left, and he had another assist today ( when he was motm for me). Another good buy by Bruce. I’d say it’s an area he’s done well. Johnstone, Elmo, Whelan, Taylor, Terry, Snodgrass, Onomah, Hourihane - all good acquisitions and regulars. For me Lansbury is decent and will play a part. Bree....I won’t judge on the limited time he’s had. Hogan.....yes there is a debate about how we use him but....has to be classed a failure. And Thor, no, not for me sorry ! He is becoming a very Thor subject for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Indeed. It’s a good hit rate from Bruce on acquisitions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2017 Interesting that Gary Rowett who was often touted on here when Bruce was under the cosh is doing very very well with the team we cannot seem to shake off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: How was your trip to B6 today? Good atmosphere? 11 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: How was your trip to B6 today? Good atmosphere? Yep......and business like win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I defend Bruce a lot... but how we were starting Gabby ahead of Albert at the start of the season is beyond me. I agree. but Albert is a changed character, clearly gone up a gear or two with his new found confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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