DCJonah Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 minute ago, wilko154 said: The over reaction here is quite impressive, we had a poor day yesterday and unfortunately Wolves were really good. A few weeks ago they played poorly themselves against Sheff Utd and lost 2-0... everyone in this league has a bad week To say we are miles off target for promotion is a bold statement when we are only in October, 1 point off the playoffs and 5 points off the automatics. We now have 2 winnable games and then a 6 pointer for a playoff place against Preston Yes we lost a game, but we've come off the back off an 8 game unbeaten run. No need to panic just yet Haha. Finished 13th. Constant poor football, still not on course for promotion 12 months later. But it's over reaction to expect better. Yeah ok. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I just have one question. WTF does Bruce do at half time to encourage us to concede in the first 10 minutes of the new half? It is the most consistent bloody thing about this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Predictable VT response, attacking fans and ignoring the facts about Bruce's reign here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Genie said: They had a good day, they have had bad days too hence the losses. That was my point about the promoted teams last year, lost nearly 35 games between the 3 of them. Should they have sacked their managers because they lost to someone their fans decided they should have beaten? Madness. It’s a very selective point though, limited to support your view. I actually think the comparison you’ve made actually supports a different view. You have highlighted the number of games lost by Newcastle (10), Brighton (9) and Huddersfield (15) then reference the number of games we’ve lost (3), the suggestion being this somehow means we are on track. Yet you opt not to mention games won. Newcastle (29), Brighton (28) and Huddersfield (25). Extending your logic on loses to wins and that would put us at around 20 wins this season. That isn’t good enough to get promoted even if we only lose the same sort of number of games as those promoted last season. The teams promoted last season went out to win games, they didn’t approach games how we approached yesterday or how we’ve approached games against far less impressive opponents. I’ve said it countless times in this thread in my criticism of Bruce, we need to be on the front foot going out to try and control and dominate games. We need to be trying to win games and frankly, irrespective of our recent run, 12 months of Bruce has shown that just isn’t how we approach games. Your comparison to the promoted teams also doesn’t mention stats for things like chances created or possession statistics, so you think we are on a par with them for those? To try and argue we are on track based on games lost is frankly ridiculous and more than a little selective. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, AJ said: I just have one question. WTF does Bruce do at half time to encourage us to concede in the first 10 minutes of the new half? It is the most consistent bloody thing about this team. I've been asking the very same question for months. The second halves are generally much worse than the first. We seem to tail off in the last 10 minutes of the first half and instead of addressing it, whatever he says makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted October 15, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2017 Just watched his press conference before the game. He hadn’t watched Wolves live. Just watched videos. I mean wtf?? You are playing one of your mooted rivals for promotion which have a new manager and a plethora of new expensive players and you don’t take the time to go and watch before you play them in a Derby? I know managers can’t go to every game but surely to goodness it’s poor preparation to rely on videos for such an important match. Bruce was found wanting and yet again exposed as a neanderthal prehistoric manager when pitted against someone more progressive yesterday and it will sadly be the same against Fulham. Its clear for everyone to see that although Bruce has been promoted four times from the Championship, football even in the lower leagues, is now evolving beyond what Steve Bruce can offer so it’s now time for a change. That doesn’t necessarily mean that with a new manager coming in it would result in another drastic turnover in players but rather a modern progressive coach being more tactically astute with the players available. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Rower was over achieving, Bruce is under achieving. Big difference. Slightly underachieving in my view as not far from 2nd. If we are in still in this position in next two games id agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, wilko154 said: The over reaction here is quite impressive, we had a poor day yesterday and unfortunately Wolves were really good. A few weeks ago they played poorly themselves against Sheff Utd and lost 2-0... everyone in this league has a bad week To say we are miles off target for promotion is a bold statement when we are only in October, 1 point off the playoffs and 5 points off the automatics. We now have 2 winnable games and then a 6 pointer for a playoff place against Preston Yes we lost a game, but we've come off the back off an 8 game unbeaten run. No need to panic just yet Nobody is in a panic, not least because last night is pretty much exactly what a lot of us predicted as soon as we came up against a decent side rather than the likes of Bolton and Burton. You can call it over reaction all you want, the problem is that once again Bruce’s woeful football was utterly exposed by a decent side just as it has been almost every time we’ve faced one. Yes we are close to the play offs, I just refuse to see that as being a positive 12 months into his time here. Did anyone say when he arrived ‘oh I hope in 12 months we are within a few points of the play offs’, bid they balls. There are plenty of poor sides in this league, so we will have runs of good form helped along by good fortune in games. It’s happened this season just as it did last, but we will also have poor spells. The reason being that we are a pretty average side, who are poor with the ball in the limited time we have it. We simply aren’t good enough to win 28/29 games which is the sort of form you need for automatic promotion which should have been our aim. We might scrape the play offs, might. That isn’t an achievement in my view and the way some seem to think us being within a few points of them as a positive is frankly astonishing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, striker said: Just watched his press conference before the game. He hadn’t watched Wolves live. Just watched videos. I mean wtf?? You are playing one of your mooted rivals for promotion which have a new manager and a plethora of new expensive players and you don’t take the time to go and watch before you play them in a Derby? I know managers can’t go to every game but surely to goodness it’s poor preparation to rely on videos for such an important match. Bruce was found wanting and yet again exposed as a neanderthal prehistoric manager when pitted against someone more progressive yesterday and it will sadly be the same against Fulham. Its clear for everyone to see that although Bruce has been promoted four times from the Championship, football even in the lower leagues, is now evolving beyond what Steve Bruce can offer so it’s now time for a change. That doesn’t necessarily mean that with a new manager coming in it would result in another drastic turnover in players but rather a modern progressive coach being more tactically astute with the players available. Whilst I agree with a lot of this post there is no way they are going to change him after one defeat in 9 games when they decided to back him after one win in 11 . Bruce is here whether we like it or not and we just have to hope last night was a blip in recent form and we can get back to winning ways next week . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, striker said: Just watched his press conference before the game. He hadn’t watched Wolves live. Just watched videos. I mean wtf?? You are playing one of your mooted rivals for promotion which have a new manager and a plethora of new expensive players and you don’t take the time to go and watch before you play them in a Derby? I know managers can’t go to every game but surely to goodness it’s poor preparation to rely on videos for such an important match. Bruce was found wanting and yet again exposed as a neanderthal prehistoric manager when pitted against someone more progressive yesterday and it will sadly be the same against Fulham. Its clear for everyone to see that although Bruce has been promoted four times from the Championship, football even in the lower leagues, is now evolving beyond what Steve Bruce can offer so it’s now time for a change. That doesn’t necessarily mean that with a new manager coming in it would result in another drastic turnover in players but rather a modern progressive coach being more tactically astute with the players available. I saw that pre game and was going to pick up on it but couldn’t be arsed with the backlash it would have got from some. I accept opportunities to watch opposition matches are limited but I find it hard to believe he hasn’t had one. As for the rest of your post, I agree with every bit. The problem is that in the main the players he has signed are suited to his woeful football not modern football. So the job of actually taking us forward is even harder, even more so due to the financial pressures that are looming this summer. What a mess. Oddly, in some ways I think we have made our bed now. We almost need to stick with Bruce and hope he can scrape the play offs because I’m not sure we can afford the alternative. But that is a pretty poor reason for Bruce continuing in the job, I certainly don’t think he deserves to do so on merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, AJ said: I just have one question. WTF does Bruce do at half time to encourage us to concede in the first 10 minutes of the new half? It is the most consistent bloody thing about this team. Nothing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Eastie said: Whilst I agree with a lot of this post there is no way they are going to change him after one defeat in 9 games when they decided to back him after one win in 11 . Bruce is here whether we like it or not and we just have to hope last night was a blip in recent form and we can get back to winning ways next week . We may well do, we will inevitably win games under Bruce. The quality of the players we have ensures that as does the quality of some of the sides we will face. The problem quite simply is we don’t and won’t win enough games under him for automatic and may struggle to do so for the play offs. That is largely due to his quite terrible football and negative approach to matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I'm not really sure Bruce had an approach to yesterday's game or the ones preceding it. Stick the same 11 out on the pitch and hope for the best it looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, striker said: Just watched his press conference before the game. He hadn’t watched Wolves live. Just watched videos. I mean wtf?? You are playing one of your mooted rivals for promotion which have a new manager and a plethora of new expensive players and you don’t take the time to go and watch before you play them in a Derby? I know managers can’t go to every game but surely to goodness it’s poor preparation to rely on videos for such an important match. In fairness Wolves is not that close that I was so surprised that had Cotterill made it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 hours ago, macandally said: In the cold light of day, I realise that it is not the defeat that really hurts, it was the gutless, disjointed and disinterested manner it was gifted. The simple fact is that although we have a pretty decent defensive shape, we cannot break out of it. We cannot pass, have poor movement on and off the ball, have only one or two players capable of beating a man, and frankly, are poor. As a player, you cannot be happy with being coached or playing like that. We could still go up, but not under Bruce and these coaches. It’s grass roots level basics not being done properly and that is inexcusable. This is it for me. I did not expect a win or even a draw, but the manner of our defeat, while not unexpected, is just not good enough. It was men against boys, but the `boys' of Wolves made the `men' of Aston Villa look slow and unsteady. It is only one game, against a side that looks likely to be top, and we are still in a good position to make the playoffs, so we must remain optimistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: We may well do, we will inevitably win games under Bruce. The quality of the players we have ensures that as does the quality of some of the sides we will face. The problem quite simply is we don’t and won’t win enough games under him for automatic and may struggle to do so for the play offs. That is largely due to his quite terrible football and negative approach to matches. We stood off far too much last night inviting wolves to take control , it was clearly not working and Bruce should have changed things at half time as we were being completely outplayed - we only started to play when 2 down and this has been the case too often ; wolves looked much better than I thought they were but we allowed them to play like that . The good thing is that most of this league is pretty average and we do have the players in the squad to achieve things - Bruce needs to play to players strengths as I’m not sure what he was trying to do last night - he seemed to pick an offensive team and adopt a negative approach . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Eastie said: We stood off far too much last night inviting wolves to take control , it was clearly not working and Bruce should have changed things at half time as we were being completely outplayed - we only started to play when 2 down and this has been the case too often ; wolves looked much better than I thought they were but we allowed them to play like that . The good thing is that most of this league is pretty average and we do have the players in the squad to achieve things - Bruce needs to play to players strengths as I’m not sure what he was trying to do last night - he seemed to pick an offensive team and adopt a negative approach . Honestly, I don’t think he was trying to do anything really. It was just the same team as before bar Hutton and a bit of clapping and shouting encouragement, tell them to keep it tight and not be too adventurous and hope for the best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Eastie said: Whilst I agree with a lot of this post there is no way they are going to change him after one defeat in 9 games when they decided to back him after one win in 11 . Bruce is here whether we like it or not and we just have to hope last night was a blip in recent form and we can get back to winning ways next week . You think that was a " blip " ? To repeat , it wasn't the result ,it was the way we approached the game . I knew after the first minute we weren't going to get a goal . The negativity of this manager is embarrassing . When someone mentions" front foot ", he probably thinks they're talking about a disability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: we need to be on the front foot going out to try and control and dominate games. We need to be trying to win games and frankly, irrespective of our recent run, 12 months of Bruce has shown that just isn’t how we approach games. I think Bruce said something about when he took over, the priority was to stop losing. Quite right too. BUt we seem still to be at that stage, and the possession stats and the results against better teams suggest there's a long way to go to build a more assertive and positive style of play. We won't get promoted by carrying on like this. Sometimes it looks as though things are improving, then we slip back again. Improvements don't seem to be sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2017 Just now, peterms said: I think Bruce said something about when he took over, the priority was to stop losing. Quite right too. BUt we seem still to be at that stage, and the possession stats and the results against better teams suggest there's a long way to go to build a more assertive and positive style of play. We won't get promoted by carrying on like this. Sometimes it looks as though things are improving, then we slip back again. Improvements don't seem to be sustained. He did, perhaps someone should have pointed out though we were really losing games when he arrived we were drawing them. As for improvements, honestly I don’t really see them. Results aside in the recent run I never felt like the football we were playing was improving, certainly not enough given 12 months coaching and the changes made to personnel. We are better defensively than we were 12 months ago. I’ll give Bruce that. In terms of midfield and up front? No improvement that I can see despite having better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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