Steve Bruce

[VillaCas]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

I know what it means, you don’t seem to understand that teams will almost certainly not finish the season in the same place they are after 12 games.

Changing the manager is an enormous task and an enormous risk, only a fool would do it at this stage.

“On track” doesn’t mean that teams will change position as the season progresses as you seem to indicate, it means that you are on schedule, on target and that a continuation of current form will result in your goal - a continuation of our current form will result in 7th place at best ( and worse if you account for our performances against top half teams)

We won’t go up for under Bruce (although I’m not currently expecting him to be sacked) - by the time the board realise promotion is beyond him it will be too late to do anything

Bruce was a mistake from the start -  the risk of sticking with him is a long and miserable run in the lower divisions 

 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, VillaCas said:

Bruce was a mistake from the start 

Well this sums it up for me, because Steve Bruce being appointed Villa manager at that time was possibly the most universally agreed perfect appointments I’ve ever known.

Experienced, respected, huge success at doing exactly what we want to achieve, oh yeah and available, living in the area and wanting to join. It was perfect. No idea how it could possibly be regarded as a mistake from the start?

[Eastie]

11 minutes ago, Genie said:

I know what it means, you don’t seem to understand that teams will almost certainly not finish the season in the same place they are after 12 games.

Changing the manager is an enormous task and an enormous risk, only a fool would do it at this stage.

Contine the form of the last 6/7 games over the next 6/7 games and we’d probably be sat in the automatic places. You want to roll the dice, change the manager now and potentially blow the only momentum we’ve had in about 4 years? Who you bringing in? I heard Ancelotti and Hiddink mentioned in the past  

I kind of get the point you are making - over the last 9 games we have taken 18 points which is automatic promotion form - therefore should we continue to average 2 points per game from here we would finish on 87 points which would have won automatic promotion last season .

Also we have played 3 of the top 4 away from home already and have all the top 6 to play at villa park so we are still very much in the mix .

However Bruce must make sure that we get back on track straight away and that this defeat doesn’t signal another bad spell - there have been 3 or 4 false dawns under him and we need to kick on from here .

He can count himself very lucky the board backed him a month ago as they had every right to sack him but there’s no way he will go now after a run of 1 defeat in 9 games .

Fulham and blues will be huge games and if we win both we will be in the top 3 or 4 with the likes of grealish ready to return .

one advantage we have is the strength in depth of our squad compared to the rest of the league and this will hopefully stand us in good stead during the winter months.

Plenty to play for from here !

[VillaCas]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

Well this sums it up for me, because Steve Bruce being appointed Villa manager at that time was possibly the most universally agreed perfect appointments I’ve ever known.

Experienced, respected, huge success at doing exactly what we want to achieve, oh yeah and available, living in the area and wanting to join. It was perfect. No idea how it could possibly be regarded as a mistake from the start?

It wasn’t universal because I and many others wanted Wagner. I was convinced Bruce was the wrong appointment and so far nothing has dissuaded me. 

Lets leave this because you’re clearly a big Bruce fan and I’m not - let’s have a “told you so” conversation at the end of the season or when Bruce is dismissed 

[thabucks]

Bruce was the safe uninspired choice by a self serving CEO who does not have any plan or ethos. If I hear anything about his past four promotions I'm going to **** scream. Wrong man appointing the wrong man. We have wasted 18 months which I blame Xia for on x2 stupid appointments, this club needed gutting and rebuilding. Looks like the same could be the case in the summer. I just cannot see how anyone can defend Bruce, he is not the man for he job in my opinion which I totally believe is correct. I'm just baffled personally why people still make excuses for him. We are Aston Villa for **** sake. We have no Devine right to promotion but Bruce has really made it harder than it should of been with his random selections and tactical ineptness. 

[GeordieVillan]

Yesterday was a difficult one for Bruce. Had he changed the team to counter Wolves style, if we lost people would have said he bottled it and didn’t take the game to them. If he stuck with the same team and style that has served us well in last 5-6 weeks, as he did, then defeat would lead to him being accused of being one-dimensional and not understanding the opposition.

As it is, it was not pretty viewing, and we could have lost by more. We are not an entertaining team, but while we remain close to the playoffs and automatic promotion places, we will stick with Bruce. I see no reason to change manager now.

Lets be realistic, with Bruce in charge this is not a long term project, we have spent a lot of money on players to get us promoted, we havnt bought a team of young players with high sell on values. If we don’t go up this year, Bruce will be gone.

Contrasting Villa with Wolves at this stage is justified, but I think we need to have perspective as Wolves could quite easily go on a bad run in a few weeks and lose ground. Even the best teams have bad runs and lose games back-to-back. We had a bad run at the start of the season, and seemed to have turn the corner, so hopefully we can bounce back.

Our club has been a mess and rotten at the core for a few years now, bereft of spirit and confidence. This is something previous managers have not dealt with. Regardless of our playing style, I believe Bruce is addressing the confidence issue and building a team unit.

Wolves have had numerous ups and downs, and failed promotion campaigns over the years, and fair play, they seem to have hit the jackpot this year, but it’s still very very early. Who’s to say their young international players won’t tire or suffer a drop in form when the winter sets in.

4 points from the next 2 games and we will still be right in it. Ideally 7 from the next 3 games.

I think we need to accept that as long as we are in contention, Bruce is our manager for this season.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

 because there is over 100 points to play for and we’re bang in the mix. If they award a place for being top after 12 games you’d be right, but they don’t. 

Would you have sacked Rafa after he lost the first 2 games of last year on that logic? No of course you wouldn’t. 

So using this logic it's fair to say blues are on track for the title.

No one's arguing that we aren't part of a large number of clubs who look like they'll challenge for promotion. But we aren't on track to get promoted, we don't average enough points and we aren't consistent enough against top teams. There's nothing to say we are currently on track to go up. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

Well this sums it up for me, because Steve Bruce being appointed Villa manager at that time was possibly the most universally agreed perfect appointments I’ve ever known.

Experienced, respected, huge success at doing exactly what we want to achieve, oh yeah and available, living in the area and wanting to join. It was perfect. No idea how it could possibly be regarded as a mistake from the start?

Now you're just making things up.

[foreveryoung]

I personally think Wolves will drop out of it a little bit over Christmas/new year. Half the players are not used to the amount of games we have in the Championship, an the way they play, no fast paced team can keep going until the end of the season, not a chance. Even man City have always struggled a little towards the end of the season.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

Well this sums it up for me, because Steve Bruce being appointed Villa manager at that time was possibly the most universally agreed perfect appointments I’ve ever known.

Experienced, respected, huge success at doing exactly what we want to achieve, oh yeah and available, living in the area and wanting to join. It was perfect. No idea how it could possibly be regarded as a mistake from the start?

I never wanted him at the club . I remember his time at Sunderland . We want to achieve consistent success,where is the evidence that Steve Bruce could provide Aston Villa with that ?

[Genie]

18 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So using this logic it's fair to say blues are on track for the title.

No one's arguing that we aren't part of a large number of clubs who look like they'll challenge for promotion. But we aren't on track to get promoted, we don't average enough points and we aren't consistent enough against top teams. There's nothing to say we are currently on track to go up. 

You’re mixing what is mathematically possible with what is realistic. 

[Genie]

15 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Now you're just making things up.

Sorry, no I’m not. Even today whenever it comes up with actual football pundits they say the same thing. 

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, Genie said:

You’re mixing what is mathematically possible with what is realistic. 

Same way as your mixing something that's realistic with something that's on course to happen.

[Genie]

16 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Same way as your mixing something that's realistic with something that's on course to happen.

On course to happen? Put every pound you have on it then if it’s a certainty and you’ll be a rich man.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

On course to happen? Put every pound you have on it then if it’s a certainty and you’ll be a rich man.

Again you're getting confused. Being off course doesn't make it certain, things can change and it's not impossible to get on track to become promoted. It's looking highly unlikely and I've no faith it will happen but not once have I said it's certain. 

 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Again you're getting confused. Being off course doesn't make it certain, things can change and it's not impossible to get on track to become promoted. It's looking highly unlikely and I've no faith it will happen but not once have I said it's certain. 

 

This is a breakthrough moment!   We’ve accepted Villa may still go up despite being out of the play off places today, so the “on course” can mean going up because we’re in a realistically good position.

Now the decision Dr T probably thinks often, what gives me the best chance of success (promotion). I can stick with the guy who has us currently on the cusp of the places, in good (but not great) form, and have the benefits of knowing the squad etc... or do I sack him and go through the expense and churn of replacing his staff and bringing in someone else and he might be better. He might also be worse. As risks go, it’s a dangerous one given where we are what we stand to lose. It’s for this reason there is no chance he’ll be sacked at this stage whilst Villa have a realistic shot at promotion.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Well this sums it up for me, because Steve Bruce being appointed Villa manager at that time was possibly the most universally agreed perfect appointments I’ve ever known.

Experienced, respected, huge success at doing exactly what we want to achieve, oh yeah and available, living in the area and wanting to join. It was perfect. No idea how it could possibly be regarded as a mistake from the start?

It seemed the sensible safe option. Lets not get carried away and start calling it perfect.  I doubt a large section of fans would have felt so underwhelmed with a 'perfect' appointment. 

[Eastie]

Not sure it’s highly unlikely , looking at the fixtures and a win v Fulham would put us in the top 5 at worst with wolves at home to Preston and Bristol playing Leeds - undoubtedly last night was very poor but having already played 3 of the top 4 away we could be within touching distance of the top 2 next weekend - we must put last night behind us and get a good response at villa park next week - we are still very much in the hunt as it stands .

[DaveAV1]

46 minutes ago, Genie said:

Sorry, no I’m not. Even today whenever it comes up with actual football pundits they say the same thing. 

Pundits! You think the pundits have any interest in any team outside the top six in the PL, let alone outside the top six of the Championship?? They back him because it’s an easy slap on the back for a media friendly old buddy. As for Steve Bruce being, “the most universally agreed perfect appointments you’ve ever known”, I’ll have to assume you’re very, very young.

[DaveAV1]

17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It seemed the sensible safe option. Lets not get carried away and start calling it perfect.  I doubt a large section of fans would have felt so underwhelmed with a 'perfect' appointment. 

Personally my whelm has never been more undered.