Popular Post Keyblade Posted September 24, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2017 4 hours ago, bobzy said: It would be ridiculous to sack a manager after the club is unbeaten in 6 games and having just won back-to-back games. It would be a Birmingham City-esque move, to be honest. I don't enjoy us under Steve Bruce and was in favour of him going a few weeks back (I still am to an extent, but the above rings true), but I don't get this "no way in hell" thing at all? Our current form is promotion form. Surely that's the most recent indicator of what could be possible? I think people have gone completely anti-Bruce. He's been in charge for 44 games already. We've had many similar 'promotion form' runs in those 43 games, and it got us nowhere near actual promotion. So I'm not sure why this one's supposed to be different. It's not about going on little unbeaten runs here and there, it's about sustaining that form throughout an entire season. And he's not going to do it for 2 reasons: 1: He's already had roughly a full season in charge, accumulating 65 points in the process. That wouldn't even be enough for 9th place. So no, far from promotion form. 2. The type of football he plays means he just can't produce consistent results over a prolonged period of time. You just don't get promoted playing hit and hope football. It's not even hoofball with a purpose a la Allardyce or Pulis. You might luck into a couple of brief runs here and there but it simply won't last. You can't hope your way into promotion I'm afraid. My rationale is, I have no confidence that he will get us promoted, given the ample amount of evidence he provided, even though I really thought he was the man to do it at first. So why stick with him? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I honestly can't believe so many people are offended by me calling men who won't take their dad to the football because they can't be arsed, meaning he can't go at all even though he wants to, dicks. That is dickish behaviour. My dad was very restricted in his mobility towards the end of his life. I'd have walked over hot coals if it helped him do stuff he wanted to do. I can't imagine stopping him doing something he wanted to do because I found it a bit boring. If @villabromsgrove wants to go to the football and the only thing stopping him is his sons can't be arsed because they find Bruce's football boring, then they are acting like dicks. No one is disputing your points there its labelling of his lads as "dicks" its a bit strong. I certainly would not like it if i had kids and someone insulted them like that. Also sorry to hear about your dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 OK, let's assume that we get to the end of the season in a play off place. I personally have no confidence in SB being tactically aware enough to outplay the teams that we will be facing for those games. Does anyone else not fear this situation? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He's been in charge for 44 games already. We've had many similar 'promotion form' runs in those 43 games, and it got us nowhere near actual promotion. So I'm not sure why this one's supposed to be different. It's not about going on little unbeaten runs here and there, it's about sustaining that form throughout an entire season. And he's not going to do it for 2 reasons: 1: He's already had roughly a full season in charge, accumulating 65 points in the process. That wouldn't even be enough for 9th place. So no, far from promotion form. 2. The type of football he plays means he just can't produce consistent results over a prolonged period of time. You just don't get promoted playing hit and hope football. It's not even hoofball with a purpose a la Allardyce or Pulis. You might luck into a couple of brief runs here and there but it simply won't last. You can't hope your way into promotion I'm afraid. My rationale is, I have no confidence that he will get us promoted, given the ample amount of evidence he provided, even though I really thought he was the man to do it at first. So why stick with him? I too like Trent have given up explaining the obvious. Like I said, when I'm back from "me Hols" 3 games where we need 9pts from will have gone by. I dont have faith in him, my faith in the board/DrT sacking him early enough for us to still have a chance is also not very much. So just just like those hoping for a miracle of turning the corner, I'm hoping for common sense to prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I can't see us sacking Bruce whilst we are doing well but is It such a bad idea if our performances don't improve? When he came in last year we were awful but got the results but we never improved and then went on awful run of results all because we hadn't go at any better as a team. I can see the same happening if we don't improve on the pitch. Forest had all the ball but lacked the quality to hurt us thst much. Brentford was the same but we had an inspired Johnstone to help us. We can't keep allowing teams to dominate us in the hope of scoring and seeing it out. Southampton replaced Atkins with Pochettino when he was doing a decent job but they knew he was limited shot in better. We should be in the play offs at the end of the week with 2 more wins and would be an amazing draw if we chose to change Bruce. I'd say most fans think if we can't improve we won't go up so is it such a bad idea if we can get a better replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, Mister_a said: OK, let's assume that we get to the end of the season in a play off place. I personally have no confidence in SB being tactically aware enough to outplay the teams that we will be facing for those games. Does anyone else not fear this situation? Nope cause we have better players than most. Get in the playoffs and we will go up. It's getting there for me that's the issue. In one off games we have the quality to beat anyone but relying on individual brilliance every game doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, dn1982 said: Nope cause we have better players than most. Get in the playoffs and we will go up. It's getting there for me that's the issue. In one off games we have the quality to beat anyone but relying on individual brilliance every game doesn't work. I wish I were as confident as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, Mister_a said: I wish I were as confident as you are. It's just faith that Kodija and others can do the business when needed. Ive no confidence in Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Get in the playoffs and we will go up. I'd be interested to know just how you have come to that conclusion. So whether we finish 3rd or 6th, it doesn't matter as we will be so much better than any of the other 3 teams in the play offs that we are guaranteed to beat them? Edited September 24, 2017 by One For The Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 42 minutes ago, Mister_a said: OK, let's assume that we get to the end of the season in a play off place. I personally have no confidence in SB being tactically aware enough to outplay the teams that we will be facing for those games. Does anyone else not fear this situation? Worrying about whether we can win the playoffs may be overthinking things a bit. Bruce has won playoff finals twice with other teams so are you thinking he has forgotten the tactical awareness he had then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, One For The Road said: I'd be interested to know just how you have come to that conclusion. So whether we finish 3rd or 6th, it doesn't matter as we will be so much better than any of the other 3 teams in the play offs that we are guaranteed to beat them? Why didn't you quote the whole reply? If you would've you could've read the reason for your self. I believe as individual players we have as good a season bunch as any. Kodija for me is one of the best players in this league as are some of the others. Now this is the bit you decided to leave out. In one off games we have the quality to beat anyone but relying on individual brilliance every week doesn't work. That's why over 2 legs and then a final I'd fancy us against anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 20 hours ago, sonic_bouma said: What in Gods name does he say at half time to send them out so unmotivated. It was interesting Sky had a little pop up stats box after Forest equalised, showing that the number of goals we concede in the first 15 minutes after half time was something like 6, compared to all other 15 minute periods there was nothing over 2. There is clearly an issue directly after half time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Why didn't you quote the whole reply? If you would've you could've read the reason for your self. I believe as individual players we have as good a season bunch as any. Kodija for me is one of the best players in this league as are some of the others. Now this is the bit you decided to leave out. In one off games we have the quality to beat anyone but relying on individual brilliance every week doesn't work. That's why over 2 legs and then a final I'd fancy us against anyone. I didn't quote that part because it is irrelevant. If we finish 6th, that means that 3 teams who finished ABOVE us will also be in the play offs. Do you not think that those teams could also claim to be able to beat anyone on the day? It just seems an odd assertion to make, that we would win the play offs if we got there. I'd hope we would, but I certainly wouldn't be as confident as you seem to be. Especially when we are currently sat in 9th place. Anyway, I don't think we will even get there so there we go. Edited September 24, 2017 by One For The Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 It's the ability to continue to get results with the football or lack thereof we are playing that is the problem. Simply can't play this way and hit form consistently . Don't forget we went through this period last season of winning a few playing shite and then results started to match performances. The tanking away to brentford and embarrassment at home to barnsley. You look at Leeds at wolves and in all probability they are gonna be in the mix because they are putting in serious performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 48 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He's been in charge for 44 games already. We've had many similar 'promotion form' runs in those 43 games, and it got us nowhere near actual promotion. So I'm not sure why this one's supposed to be different. It's not about going on little unbeaten runs here and there, it's about sustaining that form throughout an entire season. And he's not going to do it for 2 reasons: 1: He's already had roughly a full season in charge, accumulating 65 points in the process. That wouldn't even be enough for 9th place. So no, far from promotion form. 2. The type of football he plays means he just can't produce consistent results over a prolonged period of time. You just don't get promoted playing hit and hope football. It's not even hoofball with a purpose a la Allardyce or Pulis. You might luck into a couple of brief runs here and there but it simply won't last. You can't hope your way into promotion I'm afraid. My rationale is, I have no confidence that he will get us promoted, given the ample amount of evidence he provided, even though I really thought he was the man to do it at first. So why stick with him? I get the frustrations with Bruce but what you've posted above is patently nonsense given that he has been promoted from this league 4 times already. We're hitting some semblance of form and the team is (finally) looking settled. We need to get behind the team and hope we can keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, One For The Road said: I didn't quote that part because it is irrelevant. If we finish 6th, that means that 3 teams who finished ABOVE us will also be in the play offs. Do you not think that those teams could also claim to be able to beat anyone on the day? It just seems an odd assertion to make, that we would win the play offs if we got there. I'd hope we would, but I certainly wouldn't be as confident as you seem to be. Especially when we are currently sat in 9th place. Anyway, I don't think we will even get there so there we go. How was it irrelevant? It's the whole reason I'm confident. You can disagree all you like but I stated my reason if I'd left it as we'd go up. I'd understand you questioning it but I stated the reason and I also said getting there is the biggest issue for me as individuals can't turn it on every game. You seem to think we won't get in the playoffs yet haven't stated why apart from saying we are 9th. We are 2 pts off 6th. We will probably be in the top 6 by next Saturday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: 1: He's already had roughly a full season in charge, accumulating 65 points in the process. That wouldn't even be enough for 9th place. So no, far from promotion form. You raise an interesting point here. At the end of this week Bruce will have managed 46 league games with us so the equivalent of a full season. If we were to get two wins this week he'd have then taken 71 points over that time. On average over the last few years you are looking at needing 75 points for a play off place and around 86 points to get top 2. If we consider that during Bruces time here we haven't played that well I think this shows two things. One that you don't have to be that good to get top 6 and also given that we all think we can play much better, including the manager, it shows that even a slight improvement would easily be good enough to see us in the play off places and it wouldn't take much to see us top 2. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, PatrickCousens said: I get the frustrations with Bruce but what you've posted above is patently nonsense given that he has been promoted from this league 4 times already. We're hitting some semblance of form and the team is (finally) looking settled. We need to get behind the team and hope we can keep it up. We've won 2 in a row. We were poor yesterday. Steady on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, PatrickCousens said: I get the frustrations with Bruce but what you've posted above is patently nonsense given that he has been promoted from this league 4 times already. We're hitting some semblance of form and the team is (finally) looking settled. We need to get behind the team and hope we can keep it up. He got promoted 4 times with other teams before...and? I don't get it, why does that render his 12 months with us irrelevant? So that means he didn't accrue 65 points over 44 games with us? Or isn't playing aimless hit and hope football? I'm not sure how any of that is nonsense. The term non sequitur comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 13 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He got promoted 4 times with other teams before...and? I don't get it, why does that render his 12 months with us irrelevant? So that means he didn't accrue 65 points over 44 games with us? Or isn't playing aimless hit and hope football? I'm not sure how any of that is nonsense. The term non sequitur comes to mind. You say 'the type of football he plays means that he just can't produce results over a prolonged period of time'. That's factually incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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