Steve Bruce

[Demitri_C]

19 minutes ago, villarocker said:

I thought the defence was ropey last night. How many times did the slightest bit of movement from Daryl Murphy give him a chance at goal? There were two occasions when he was surrounded by 4 Villa shirts yet he still got a header in at goal. I'm pretty sure that he didn't even move on the one occasion and just found that the ball came straight to him and he just had to head it goalwards. 

I think first half we were completely dominant. They could not get a snuff. A bad error from whelan and then for the next 10-15mins we looked a lil shaky and shocked that forest had scored with their first attempt. But once we scored we looked comfortable. Saying that though if we have a shaky period against Leeds or wolves we will get punished.

still a lot if work to do. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

Promotion is the goal isn't it, whichever way it may come.

At a basic level yes, but the playoffs are a massive risk and for my mind, too much of a roll of the dice given the bad financial situation at stake (if we do not go up this season) and the money spent on players. If we only make the playoffs and then fail to go up the entire thing would have been one big expensive waste of time. 

We should be distinguishing ourselves as the best in the league and starting create distance between us and the rest by now but we are well short of that and will not be in that position this season.

It's amazing how Leeds can be so much more solid, organised and playing much better football than us despite having only a tiny fraction of our budget, it's all down to quality of management I guess.

[villabromsgrove]

 

A couple of individual players won the game for us, but we still made hard work of it. There is so much wrong with the way Villa play and yet thankfully we have the players to scrape past lesser teams, it won't work against better teams though. 36% possession at home .... Where was the expansive game that Bruce promised us?

Good three points, but another dodgy performance.

 

 

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Nothing to do with the past 40 odd games for me. Yes, he has a better squad. No, the football isn't better. However, the results are improving simply because of the quality of the squad. I think a better manager could run away with this league with this squad. 

For the record, our squad has improved since the same fixture last season. To counter that, Forest's squad has gone the other way. Yet, they still outplayed us for the majority of that second half and could (should?) have gotten something out of the game. 

But there is a pattern forming, here, every time we win the opposition is accused of being poor, but the championship as we should know by now is not like that, every team has a chance. I can't say I am full of optimism that we will get promotion (beacuse of the last 40 odd games) but I do see an upward trajectory here, long may it continue, oh and well done Bruce. 

[TrentVilla]

14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Why do you have a problem with people trying to stay positive? He isn't going anywhere at present and for me hasn't done enough to warrant the sack yet. 

Did you even read my post?

Yes I read it, it made me doubt you had read mine.

I have no issue with people opting to be positive, I just question some of the logic/justification etc for being so and I take issue with way criticism of Bruce is deemed unreasonable. How people want and expect people to forget about the last 11 months and focus on the last few games as if what went before has no bearing on the future.

But as I said, I’m done with the debate on Bruce it’s pointless. I know what I think and nothing posted in this thread will change that and I don’t think Bruce will achieve the required performances or results to change it.

So I’m done.

 

[villabromsgrove]

25 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Nothing to do with the past 40 odd games for me. Yes, he has a better squad. No, the football isn't better. However, the results are improving simply because of the quality of the squad. I think a better manager could run away with this league with this squad. 

For the record, our squad has improved since the same fixture last season. To counter that, Forest's squad has gone the other way. Yet, they still outplayed us for the majority of that second half and could (should?) have gotten something out of the game. 

This post totally sums up my thoughts and feelings. Every word is spot on. Cheers!

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

 

. 36% possession at home ....

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Certainly yesterday it seemed to be a ploy to allow them to have the ball up until the half way line before closing them down. They had a lot of possession in their own defensive third.

I think it could become a tactic we use quite often to draw teams forward before winning the ball back and breaking quickly.

Edited September 24, 2017 by markavfc40

[VillaCas]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Interesting to hear David Wagner crowing about his clean sheetson MOTD...i wonder if SB would get away with that.

 

Who???? Is that the same David Wagner who has taken mighty Huddersfield to 8th in the Premier League on a shoestring budget???? The very nerve of the bloke!!!!

Edited September 24, 2017 by VillaCas

[bobzy]

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

This is really what it boils down to. We are targeting automatic promotion given our investment and the quality of our squad...as well as the stakes of promotion this season. Taking part in the playoff lottery just isn't a gamble we can afford to take given the circumstances. 

There's no way in hell it looks like Bruce will achieve that given the way we've been playing this season as well as looking at the very decent sample size of 43 or so games we've had with him during his tenure. Pretty much a full Championship season.

So if it looks like he won't be able to achieve his target, why should he stay in the job?

It would be ridiculous to sack a manager after the club is unbeaten in 6 games and having just won back-to-back games.  It would be a Birmingham City-esque move, to be honest.

 

I don't enjoy us under Steve Bruce and was in favour of him going a few weeks back (I still am to an extent, but the above rings true), but I don't get this "no way in hell" thing at all?  Our current form is promotion form.   Surely that's the most recent indicator of what could be possible?

I think people have gone completely anti-Bruce.

[Stevo985]

53 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

 

A couple of individual players won the game for us, but we still made hard work of it. There is so much wrong with the way Villa play and yet thankfully we have the players to scrape past lesser teams, it won't work against better teams though. 36% possession at home .... Where was the expansive game that Bruce promised us?

Good three points, but another dodgy performance.

 

 

I'm no big Bruce fan, and I didn't enjoy the game much yesterday.

But if he really is going to try and make us play more expansive football, it's not going to happen over night. If he says it on Friday you can't expect it to magically happen by 3pm Saturday.

 

(fwiw I don't believe we will start playing expansive football, but it's a nice thought)

[VillaCas]

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It would be ridiculous to sack a manager after the club is unbeaten in 6 games and having just won back-to-back games.  It would be a Birmingham City-esque move, to be honest.

 

I don't enjoy us under Steve Bruce and was in favour of him going a few weeks back (I still am to an extent, but the above rings true), but I don't get this "no way in hell" thing at all?  Our current form is promotion form.   Surely that's the most recent indicator of what could be possible?

I think people have gone completely anti-Bruce.

It get this and I recognise that it is unlikely that he will be sacked in the next few weeks

We are picking up points now, but we are still looking far from convincing. 

My worry has always been that he is good enough (or really the squad is expensive enough) to keep us in the mix but that we lack the clear vision and plan to make the playoffs 

He could be here for some time yet until the penny drops with Xia that 10th place is not good enough

I expect us to continue to pick up points and flirt with the playoff positions and never ever crack the top spots

We will not achieve our goals under Bruce

[peterms]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

I dunno what the club think, but it’s what I think, terry.

absolutely every managerial appointment or change or decision not to change is a gamble, and not only that, the odds are uncertain, too.

in terms of villa and Bruce - he’s not doing so badly as to warrant the sack, or so well as to warrant a “sign him up on a longer deal”. We know the downsides of repeated managerial changes - the pay offs, the upheaval, the turnover of players, the adjustments and all of that. Many of the things that have led us to where we are, in fact. My bottom line is that while I don’t personally rate the bloke as a manager and never have, they chose him, he’s here, and bluntly unless there’s a nigh on guaranteed certainty for promotion manager sitting out there, available ( there isn’t) then sticking with Bruce is less of a punt against the odds than potting him would be. And the club really needs stability.

Well, they've clearly gone for the "bet the firm" strategy of pinning everything on getting promotion, recognising it all blows up if that is not achieved.

Performances over the last year suggest it's not going to work, and showing tables of the last 6 results doesn't change that.  I can see that they would think the alternative is also risky, and if there is no money to fund the change in playing staff that would be requested by an incoming manager, or paying off Bruce's contract and paying compensation to a club if a new manager is still in contract, then they may have locked themselves into staying with Bruce just by virtue of having spent to the limit.

If we end up towards the end of the season with promotion not happening, and facing a future constrained by declining parachute payments and FFP, then at that point perhaps Xia will bite the bullet and look for an ambitious young manager around whom to build the club.  Some of us thought that's what should have been done last time, of course.

[Jareth]

I'd say the sacking point is if play-offs ever look seriously in danger.

[striker]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

But there is a pattern forming, here, every time we win the opposition is accused of being poor, but the championship as we should know by now is not like that, every team has a chance. I can't say I am full of optimism that we will get promotion (beacuse of the last 40 odd games) but I do see an upward trajectory here, long may it continue, oh and well done Bruce. 

I also see an upward trajectory but against the poorer teams in the division. It was generally the same last season. Most posters on site expected Villa to win the last two games due to the opposition and so they have, extending Bruce's employment. 

Where Villa tend to struggle is against better teams in the league and they did that last season and the start of this one so it will be interesting to see how Villa fair once again when they get a harder run of fixtures?

That will be the acid test for me because Villa will have to get results against the likes of Leeds, Fulham and Wolves if they are to finish in the top two. Automatic promotion should be the ambition and not just reaching the playoffs which are a lottery.

Edited September 24, 2017 by striker

[Jareth]

Just now, striker said:

That will be the acid test for me because Villa will have to get results against the likes of Leeds and Wolves if they are to finish in the top two which should be the ambition and not just reach the playoffs which are a lottery.

Agreed, top 2 is the ambition, play-offs are the bottom line - I think we are too far gone now this season to expect a manager swap.

[Nigel]

23 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It would be ridiculous to sack a manager after the club is unbeaten in 6 games and having just won back-to-back games.  It would be a Birmingham City-esque move, to be honest.

 

I don't enjoy us under Steve Bruce and was in favour of him going a few weeks back (I still am to an extent, but the above rings true), but I don't get this "no way in hell" thing at all?  Our current form is promotion form.   Surely that's the most recent indicator of what could be possible?

I think people have gone completely anti-Bruce.

Exactly. I think some have lost sight of what is important here, it's winning games not the removal of Bruce!

He is doing his job atm!

[Demitri_C]

51 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yes I read it, it made me doubt you had read mine.

I have no issue with people opting to be positive, I just question some of the logic/justification etc for being so and I take issue with way criticism of Bruce is deemed unreasonable. How people want and expect people to forget about the last 11 months and focus on the last few games as if what went before has no bearing on the future.

But as I said, I’m done with the debate on Bruce it’s pointless. I know what I think and nothing posted in this thread will change that and I don’t think Bruce will achieve the required performances or results to change it.

So I’m done.

 

Will you be done if you get it wrong and he takes us up? If you did read my post you will see i have my reservations about bruce but i dont believe the no progress has been made section of your post.

We won only once on sky and bruce has won twice in a week live on sky therfore some progress there.

Winning back to back games again progress there. 

Keeping clean sheets again progress there.

Johnstone looks far better this season again progress there.

Yes there are a hell of a few negatives too its nowhere near our best  but i am seeing signs that we are improving.

I think the no.progress part is completely untrue in my view.

[Johnnyp]

22 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It would be ridiculous to sack a manager after the club is unbeaten in 6 games and having just won back-to-back games.  It would be a Birmingham City-esque move, to be honest.

 

I don't enjoy us under Steve Bruce and was in favour of him going a few weeks back (I still am to an extent, but the above rings true), but I don't get this "no way in hell" thing at all?  Our current form is promotion form.   Surely that's the most recent indicator of what could be possible?

I think people have gone completely anti-Bruce.

Your missing the point though. This has Wigan, Fulham, Burton Albion, Cardiff, those home games last season where we won but were pretty poor, written all over it. We didn't sustain those results,  how could we! It's not anti bruce at all. But i know what i see.

[Stevo985]

I think the point of him getting the sack has passed. 

Unless we hit a seriously bad run of results, I think he's here for the season, rightly or wrongly.

[VillaCas]

7 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Exactly. I think some have lost sight of what is important here, it's winning games not the removal of Bruce!

He is doing his job atm!

This is flawed logic and missing the big picture - what's actually important is winning ENOUGH games to gain promotion - some, like you apparently, think Bruce can deliver that. Some, like me, think not

Edited September 24, 2017 by VillaCas