dn1982 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 17 hours ago, One For The Road said: I don't think we will get to the play offs because I think the club is run poorly, we have far less quality in our squad than a lot of people seem to think and we have a manager that plays turgid, defensive football. Your earliet point about us having individuals that can do it one off games still doesn't work for me as other clubs could say the same. Especially if they have finished in the top 6. And who are these individuals? Kodjia and......? What is it about us that makes you think we are some how superior? Because I haven't seen anything at all to suggest that since we have been in this division. This division is crap. There's nothing to worry about. I agree we play awful football and a lot of others play better stuff but we will get better as the season goes either with or without Bruce. If we finish in the playoffs we will be as strong as any of the others but I think we have players for the bigger stage. Kodija, Adomah, Grealish, Snodgrass and Hourihane will probably be our attacking players by the end of the season. Name another 5 clubs with that talent? I think your negativity towards Bruce is clouding your judgement on the players we have. Under another manager we'd be flying but we are where we are and if it's turgid densive football all the way I'll take it as long as it's winning turgid defensive football. Bruce does get teams up somehow. I've no idea how watching it but he does. So let's hope this is how he did it before and it'll work again. Then sack him and get a manager that makes watching Villa enjoyable again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Said I would give him a chance if he won the remaining games in Sep. Still will. However, I don't think we will win both games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said: I do not like Bruce as a manager, never have. However the reality is that as long as we're in with a shout of the play offs (or better) he is staying. I am happy that for now we are playing 4-4-2 but as the game against Forest showed we still have big problems keeping the ball and we are far rom being able to dominate games. Fair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I the interests of clarity and accuracy.....Steve Bruce has explained his target audience when exclaiming about "Mass Hysteria" He said he was referring to social Media and not the fans in the ground......He explained the fans in the ground have generally been great to me and the team. back to work Steve and don't sweat the small stuff, even if others do. just keep winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, TRO said: I the interests of clarity and accuracy.....Steve Bruce has explained his target audience when exclaiming about "Mass Hysteria" He said he was referring to social Media and not the fans in the ground......He explained the fans in the ground have generally been great to me and the team. back to work Steve and don't sweat the small stuff, even if others do. just keep winning. You are aware that those in the ground are the same on social media? I'd even say those that go the games see 1st hand the crap he's been serving up. If you went to Reading and watched the game and then listened to Bruce after you'd realise he's appealing to the masses and not the ones who go. Bruce should stop mentioning it. He is underacheiving. If he loses the next 2 he'll have roughly the record of the bloke he replaced so he should be under pressure. We were 10 pts off 6 th when he came and couldn't make it up. We need to be in and around promotion all year and if we aren't he will be under scrutiny. Instead of alienating fans he should be drumming up support. Our crowds are awful because the football is. Let's get in the playoffs and start talking positively about going up. Let's start playing positively to get the buzz back at Villa Park. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 hours ago, bobzy said: Sacking a manager when the team is in good form is absurd, whether or not you think he's the right man long term. I agree with what you're saying, I don't think Steve Bruce is right for us, his football is largely dull and I have my doubts as to whether he'll manage to get us promoted this season, but we're in good form. (As an aside, using last season as a barometer for the current season is daft. I think you know that really). I agree it would be silly to sack him now, he should have been gone before the Norwich game tbh. But that's on Dr. X and the board. Regardless, he's still not the man to take us up. And given how far behind our rivals we already are, if we wait for him to go on another bad run that will probably be curtains for our promotion push. Of course I hope he never goes on a sackable run, but given that I'm fairly certain he's not going to get us up at this point, it's going to happen eventually so why wait for things to get bad? Also I have no clue why people act like last season was something of a freebie. Like this season is a completely new slate, and the 9 months from last season are irrelevant. He had one of the best squads in the league, as well as a transfer window where he added to it by signing 5 players including a 14 million pound striker who already had 14 goals to his name and the division's best midfielder. Last season was a good barometer in fact. All of the symptoms shown then are still rearing their ugly heads...and it's not by chance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I agree it would be silly to sack him now, he should have been gone before the Norwich game tbh. But that's on Dr. X and the board. Regardless, he's still not the man to take us up. And given how far behind our rivals we already are, if we wait for him to go on another bad run that will probably be curtains for our promotion push. Of course I hope he never goes on a sackable run, but given that I'm fairly certain he's not going to get us up at this point, it's going to happen eventually so why wait for things to get bad? Also I have no clue why people act like last season was something of a freebie. Like this season is a completely new slate, and the 9 months from last season are irrelevant. He had one of the best squads in the league, as well as a transfer window where he added to it by signing 5 players including a 14 million pound striker who already had 14 goals to his name and the division's best midfielder. Last season was a good barometer in fact. All of the symptoms shown then are still rearing their ugly heads...and it's not by chance. It wasn't "a freebie" but it has no relevance on this season. Last season we drew at home to Forest, this time we won. Does that mean we'll be better over a season? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 14 hours ago, srsmithusa said: And some like me, who would rather we have changed months ago but have no choice but to wait and see. It can't be much fun supporting a team and you want the manager out so much.....it has to be a grind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: It wasn't "a freebie" but it has no relevance on this season. Last season we drew at home to Forest, this time we won. Does that mean we'll be better over a season? Nope. My point was we've had enough of a sample size of games to draw conclusions from his style of play. He's not going to switch up after 45 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, dn1982 said: You are aware that those in the ground are the same on social media? I'd even say those that go the games see 1st hand the crap he's been serving up. If you went to Reading and watched the game and then listened to Bruce after you'd realise he's appealing to the masses and not the ones who go. Bruce should stop mentioning it. He is underacheiving. If he loses the next 2 he'll have roughly the record of the bloke he replaced so he should be under pressure. We were 10 pts off 6 th when he came and couldn't make it up. We need to be in and around promotion all year and if we aren't he will be under scrutiny. Instead of alienating fans he should be drumming up support. Our crowds are awful because the football is. Let's get in the playoffs and start talking positively about going up. Let's start playing positively to get the buzz back at Villa Park. Well I think the views on Social Media can be diluted when it comes to the real world of face to face....I take your point, but I think he is going by the mood of the crowd.....certainly those around me whilst, aware of the shortfalls , are not calling for his head and when i have said some are, they frown in general. Its well documented the season he had last year, and what he inherited,so I won't go in to all that, but he still got 15 wins out of 35....not bad considering prior to that we had 5 wins in 18 months( now all that pent up frustration of that run cannot be dumped on SB)....we have started slow, no doubt and the football is unconvincing at times and convincing other times. I think your reference to 10 pts off 6th could be misleading......for a team who are geared for promotion it would be "meat and Veg" our record of 1 win in 11 games was relegation form, so it would require a mammoth ask to instill a winning mental attitude in to that, in fact we were conceding if a cloud came over thats how brittle we was. Other more established teams were gradually building momentum and winning games, so the final placing represented 19th place which was Birmingham 27 points off 6th place......much of a difference in gap. If he wins the next 2 he will have a win ratio of 45% that is 2% short of last years manager who finished 6th on 47%. FWIW My point is this, you can talk stats until you are blue in the face.....Its all about winning your games.....and in my view its wise to take one at a time....and win it. We have clearly not won enough so far, but we still have 75% of the season to go, yeah laughable isn't it......In my view we still have not shown our best form by a long shot and still have half the team that have played in those 25% of games....so its feasible, we will see them play better. We ALL want to see us play football that blows teams away like in 74-75 season, but we are not there yet. Its not as good as we would like, but its not as bad either......and in my view as slow as it is , its gradually getting better. Edited September 25, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Keyblade said: My point was we've had enough of a sample size of games to draw conclusions from his style of play. He's not going to switch up after 45 games. I don't remember him playing 2 up top previously? Could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Keyblade said: My point was we've had enough of a sample size of games to draw conclusions from his style of play. He's not going to switch up after 45 games. Well, He says different, but I do get your point. He says he purposely set out to make us hard to beat.....then he said he favours 2 up front but due to key injuries was unable to do that ( don't shoot the messenger at this point)....he also said its now time to play a more expansive game, so that may please some and the more cynical drive them further underground in cynicism. I totally get what the Bruouters are saying......but maybe, just a little maybe the "takes time" point has some validity. We are not achieving what we all want at present, but we are equally not doing badly enough for him to go.....so where are we, are we to depress ourselves to death, because we haven't got this White Knight we all would like or are we to sit back and see if the guy can deliver and try and enjoy what we can? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just a teaser to all the Bruouters. If a scenario manifested itself where you were in the corporate ( most likely place for it to happen)and introduced to Steve Bruce would you employ the same level of criticism or would you react like most Villa Fans would to meeting their manager. just interested to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, TRO said: Well, He says different, but I do get your point. He says he purposely set out to make us hard to beat.....then he said he favours 2 up front but due to key injuries was unable to do that ( don't shoot the messenger at this point)....he also said its now time to play a more expansive game, so that may please some and the more cynical drive them further underground in cynicism. I totally get what the Bruouters are saying......but maybe, just a little maybe the "takes time" point has some validity. We are not achieving what we all want at present, but we are equally not doing badly enough for him to go.....so where are we, are we to depress ourselves to death, because we haven't got this White Knight we all would like or are we to sit back and see if the guy can deliver and try and enjoy what we can? At least show us some respect and Spell us Brouters correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Grasshopper said: At least show us some respect and Spell us Brouters correctly. Apologies GH A "U" too many Edited September 25, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: It can't be much fun supporting a team and you want the manager out so much.....it has to be a grind. likewise, it can't be much fun supporting a manager that has fallen so far short of expectations with a team you support. We each carry our own burden. (No sarcasm or irony or dig intended. Just an honest observation. That's how I read your post as well.) We all want a team that plays well and wins more often than not. Right now, it's just not much fun for anybody. See all the irritable posts in this thread for proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just now, TRO said: Apologies GH Thnx And if I did meet Bruce in or out of Corporate, I would without a doubt question him strongly about his tenure so far. In a respectfull manner of course as I would like a respectful explanation from him. Depending how he dealt with an honest fan asking honest questions/reasonings I'd take it from there. Any patronising or disrespect response would probably result in me also being equally disrespectful and patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, TRO said: Well, He says different, but I do get your point. He says he purposely set out to make us hard to beat.....then he said he favours 2 up front but due to key injuries was unable to do that ( don't shoot the messenger at this point)....he also said its now time to play a more expansive game, so that may please some and the more cynical drive them further underground in cynicism. I totally get what the Bruouters are saying......but maybe, just a little maybe the "takes time" point has some validity. We are not achieving what we all want at present, but we are equally not doing badly enough for him to go.....so where are we, are we to depress ourselves to death, because we haven't got this White Knight we all would like or are we to sit back and see if the guy can deliver and try and enjoy what we can? I would give him time if promotion wasn't so make or break this season. If we don't get promoted it's pretty much over for us. And with the team we have it's doubly imperative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted September 25, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, TRO said: If a scenario manifested itself where you were in the corporate ( most likely place for it to happen)and introduced to Steve Bruce would you employ the same level of criticism or would you react like most Villa Fans would to meeting their manager. Wouldn't it be like any other group of people and any other situation? When addressing someone face to face there are requirements of social interaction which are not present with online communication, and which affect both what is said and how it is said. So while if Bruce said "Can I ask what you honestly think of my style of management and me staying as the manager?" people may well say "Well to be honest I think it's too negative, it's unattractive to watch, the results don't match the quality of the squad, and I think a change of manager would be in the best long-term interests of the club", but they are very unlikely to say "You're crap and you should get out now". Some may tone it down further or employ gentler ways of saying it, and some may feel uncomfortable about making direct personal criticism to someone's face. And of course if the invitation to offer an opinion hadn't been extended, there would be further social norms that would make such comments harder. What do you think would happen, and what would people say? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: likewise, it can't be much fun supporting a manager that has fallen so far short of expectations with a team you support. We each carry our own burden. (No sarcasm or irony or dig intended. Just an honest observation. That's how I read your post as well.) We all want a team that plays well and wins more often than not. Right now, it's just not much fun for anybody. See all the irritable posts in this thread for proof. I don't feel that way smithy ,hope you don't mind the colloquial terminology. I am enjoying watching us getting better albeit slow. I still don't think these boards are a true reflection of what i hear in the pubs/bars and in the ground.....and that by the way is not meant to be a criticism of the comments on hear. I have played devils advocate with many and mirrored some of the comments on hear and got scowls. I think the majority i talk to appreciate the circumstances that have been more than well documented on hear and willing to accept the progress albeit slow. Make no mistake, about my support.....If we nose dive and go in to a period of getting the deck chairs out and losing, i will be on his case too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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