Steve Bruce

[TheAuthority]

3 minutes ago, KSV said:

Credit to you for putting yourself through that again! Horrid game! Good atmosphere though!

 

Actually the 2nd half really wasn't that bad at all. Watching nervously when it was live it seemed scrappy but we actually played some lovely stuff at times.

Plus we defended like lions. Snodgrass never stopped running and Jedi must have broken a record for how many headers he won.

[Demitri_C]

8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Mate if the manager at PSG only got 20 mill to spend this summer and finished 4th or 5th would it be ok because he had a "limited budget"?

How do we conveniently pretend like we don't have the most expensive squad in the league? smh

And AGAIN he signed half a team the January prior in agreement that they were going to throw it all at promotion last season and failing that, give the signings time to bed in the go at it this season with the aim being to go up automatically.

With full knowledge that it would affect the summers budget.

We don’t boro do they spent 55m in the summer and we just beat them. Why do people refer to what rdm spent? Has he used the likes of McCormack gollini tishbola o4 gollini who all cost close to 20m?

Also when did he sign half a team in January? Two midfielders a keeper on loan, a left back and a striker? If you take away the higan transfer all those were less than 5m.

Myth

Edited May 17, 2018 by Demitri_C

[DCJonah]

24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

We don’t boro do they spent 55m in the summer and we just beat them. Why do people refer to what rdm spent? Has he used the likes of McCormack gollini tishbola o4 gollini who all cost close to 20m?

Also when did he sign half a team in January? Two midfielders a keeper on loan, a left back and a striker? If you take away the higan transfer all those were less than 5m.

Myth

If it is a myth then you must really be annoyed with Tony Xia. Setting promotion as the target and not providing the required backing is terrible. 

Truth is it is not a myth. But there really is no need to continue the same arguments this week of all weeks.

[chrisvilla4]

We are one game away from promotion. The best (and most exciting/ nervy) game to be involved in. 

Lets be united and support the team. We can complain if we lose. UTV 

[Demitri_C]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

If it is a myth then you must really be annoyed with Tony Xia. Setting promotion as the target and not providing the required backing is terrible. 

Truth is it is not a myth. But there really is no need to continue the same arguments this week of all weeks.

Huh? With all due respect DC this is a strange post Why would I be annoyed at big tony for? We all obviously know xia spent money but a majority of that was under RDM. Like I explained above almost 20m of those players have have never or rarely been used by bruce. So it is a myth.  

It's not really argument just stating my opinion. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Huh? With all due respect DC this is a strange post Why would I be annoyed at big tony for? We all obviously know xia spent money but a majority of that was under RDM. Like I explained above almost 20m of those players have have never or rarely been used by bruce. So it is a myth.  

It's not really argument just stating my opinion. 

You're both right in a way.

In terms of literally spending money, Bruce hasn't spent much. In fact i think his spend is negative.

However he was able to achieve that because he had a big expensive squad, relative to the level. To achieve a negative spend he's been able to sell people like Sanchez, Veretout, Amavi, Bacuna and loan out people like McCormack, Elphick etc to help get wages off the books.

 

So bruce has been restricted by FFP, he's not wrong when he says that, but he's had a lot to work with to get the squad he wants.
 

It's like you saying "I bought a Ferrari without spending any money" but it turns out you sold a rolls royce to raise the money

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

If it is a myth then you must really be annoyed with Tony Xia. Setting promotion as the target and not providing the required backing is terrible. 

Truth is it is not a myth. But there really is no need to continue the same arguments this week of all weeks.

Amen to that. It really is getting annoying now to come to Villatalk and find screeds and screeds of writing about this really quite tedious and unimportant issue.

Could it be resumed on 27 May perhaps?  

[TRO]

11 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

Surely you see how somewhat negate your own point ?

I think when I talk about this subject, wages are neither here or there for me.

If you want a player from another club and they don't want to sell.....Transfer fee is the first Hurdle

wages are the next hurdle.

In past years, we never spoke about wages, it was a kinda behind the scenes issue in comparison to Transfer Fee's.

In that context, I don't think Steve Bruce has had that much to play with and that was the issue being debated.

To move on slightly, its brings up the debate, has he done well or not.....I think he has done remarkably well.

do I think the football has been optically nourishing....not really, but IMO he has chosen a workmanlike format to achieve his goals.....I have accepted that as part and parcel of it all.

I do not think it will always be like this under Steve Bruce.....If we go up, we will sign players with more guile and technique to play the game many of us crave.....At the end of the day, you play a style that fits the players you have and you buy the players that fits the budget you have.

In terms of the character of the squad, he has worked miracles in transforming the club from a toxic wasteland to a vibrant entity that has an ambition to get promoted, albeit in a industrious and durable manner as opposed to a cavalier swashbuckling approach, that could leave us wide open to a reversal.

On Tuesday Night 40,550 turned up to probably the loudest Villa Park I have heard in all my years watching them (since 1959).....Steve Bruce's name was ringing out very loudly indeed which left any fan in no doubt whatsoever what the majority of fans inside the ground think of him.....it finished 0-0 as you know.......that did not negate in any way the appreciation from the crowd for that man.

I find it amazing quite frankly that we are still having debates about him, in the fashion we do......I guess social media and all that comes with it is a factor, but I can't think of another manager in my time of watching Villa that has such an impact on the turnaround of fortunes of the club and still attracted detractors.

I accept every fans has a right to an opinion.....but how fascinating it is, that they can differ so much.

Edited May 17, 2018 by TRO

[vreitti]

28 minutes ago, TRO said:

I do not think it will always be like this under Steve Bruce.....If we go up, we will sign players with more guile and technique to play the game many of us crave.....At the end of the day, you play a style that fits the players you have and you buy the players that fits the budget you have.

Sorry, but I don't buy into this at all. To me Bruce seems very old school and quite stubborn, so I highly doubt he'll suddenly change formula, regardless of division or available funds. However, this is a discussion for another day, if and when we are promoted.

Irrespective of spenditure, be it on transfer fees, wages or kebab, I don't think anyone can argue the effect Bruce has had in terms of team unity, and instilling this 'never say die' attitude we now have. It has most certainly yielded results, and for that I wholeheartedly applaud and thank him, even though (IMO) the football still is largely terrible.

Now all he needs to do is see this through, and I'll happily eat humble pie for the rest of my miserable life.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by vreitti

[rubberman]

On 16/05/2018 at 10:30, Lord Willard said:

What a great bunch of lads, that team spirit is all down to Bruce.

 

 

The bit at the end epitomises what Bruce has done for the club.  He's the main reason Terry is here and Terry is one of the main reasons Jack has flourished this season IMO.  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

As others have said, now is not the time to be arguing about Bruce anyway (It will be difficult since we don't have football for at least another 7 days I know).

After the semi final I softened quite a bit thinking about how much he has been through and the emotion and togetherness I saw in the team.

It made me consider him getting a crack in the PL should we get there.

He might not be the best manager, but there is definitely something he has created here.

Good thing I'm not paid to make these decisions though and I realise how daft it is to think about this purely based on emotion.

Thi is coming from a moderate "Brouter". lol

[TheStagMan]

21 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Are you for real? The job bruce has done has been absolutely remarkable. The team was a mess, we had a fan Base who were frustrated. We were 18th and in two years he has taken us to a play off final on a very limited budget.

We owe him a hell of a lot. If he takes us up he will be the messiah. 

Dear Lord, get over yourself and chill. 

It was a comment about the string of shit managers we have had since O'Neil rather than an attack on Bruce so cool your jets.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

Sorry, but I don't buy into this at all. To me Bruce seems very old school and quite stubborn, so I highly doubt he'll suddenly change formula, regardless of division or available funds. However, this is a discussion for another day, if and when we are promoted.

Irrespective of spenditure, be it on transfer fees, wages or kebab, I don't think anyone can argue the effect Bruce has had in terms of team unity, and instilling this 'never say die' attitude we now have. It has most certainly yielded results, and for that I wholeheartedly applaud and thank him, even though (IMO) the football still is largely terrible.

Now all he needs to do is see this through, and I'll happily eat humble pie for the rest of my miserable life.

 

You don't have to eat humble pie......I understand your position and I understand what you are looking for....nothing wrong with your aspirations.

What we don't agree on is the effort of the mechanics of how you get there.

No one supports the philosophy that Barcelona and Man city adopt,more than me, not to mention Real Madrid or the newly born Liverpool......Its not down to me to tell any manager, which is the right way and which is the wrong way to play or go about their team development....its up to them how they see the game with the players they have.

I accept the kind of football you allude to is very acceptable on the eye.....and I would be a fool to say, I don't want to see it.....However, unless you have the best players in the world who can hold and keep a ball up front, you run the risk of being undone by teams who have the odd one or two top class forwards and catch you on the counter( I am talking more Premier league now, but principles can be applied to our league.

When we won the league in 80/81 we had our fair share of doubters, pundits who regularly made derisory remarks about Rons mantra of 110 % work rate.....We were not readily accepted as the footballing team in the league...Ipswich had that claim bestowed upon them.I remember one pundit asking Shankly if we deserved to win it in the light of better perceived teams having challenged us, He said " Any team that wins 26 games in a season deserves to win it.

Every fan has their own way of reconciling what is worth praising and what isn't......Its clear you know my answer to that.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, rubberman said:

The bit at the end epitomises what Bruce has done for the club.  He's the main reason Terry is here and Terry is one of the main reasons Jack has flourished this season IMO.  

Its that knock on effect that is crucial...

Good habits and attitudes spread, but it takes time.....we are now seeing the benefits.

Our bad times Crept up on us too and we sleep walked in to a toxic situation, that too took time.

We are not home and dry yet and if/when we go up ,there is still much to do.....But he has to be the one to do it.

[Jareth]

If we go up and Bruce stays then it will be more of the same - but that is probably what we will need in order to get a footing in the prem. 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

If he gets us promoted, then I'll happily doff my cap, but wasn't that what he was brought here to do ?

 All this talk of togetherness and a great team spirit, that's all well and good, but without promotion, for me at least, it won't compensate for my disappointment. Let's not forget ,automatic promotion was in our grasp and we let it inexplicably slip. 

I really hope he gets us up, but let's remember, if we do, we certainly made it more difficult than it had to be. 

 

Sheepy, just rememeber Boro' was just the width of the bar taking us to extra time and penalties.....its fine margins.

Yes he was brought in to win us promotion, in the same manner as Mourinho was brought in to win them the league.....what is expected does not always happen.

You have to respect the opposition......There is always a team on the otherside that cannot be ignored, they have aspirations too......They are there to thwart our aspirations and sometimes they do a good job too, we have to appreciate that, in order to know how to win properly.

Fulham lost to Birmingham when a win could have secured Automatic place......that result was no where near predictable.....its football.....2+2 does not always equal 4.

We have undoubtedly had some regrettable results during the season and some stonking ones too.....but by and large the lads have grafted for this.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Jareth said:

If we go up and Bruce stays then it will be more of the same - but that is probably what we will need in order to get a footing in the prem. 

I don't think it will be more of the same.....I would guess I will be very much in the minority on this.

My opinion is this........He plays a style of football that suits the book, he has never been blessed with a team full of talented players, that he feels he has the choice to play anything close to expansive football.

Players have to be able to do what you are asking of them, otherwise you play a more cautious game to accommodate to get results.

I am not saying he will naturally produce a team like Man City or that he has the skill set to emulate Pepe......but I do think you will see less caution as we get better players in.

[sheepyvillian]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Sheepy, just rememeber Boro' was just the width of the bar taking us to extra time and penalties.....its fine margins.

Yes he was brought in to win us promotion, in the same manner as Mourinho was brought in to win them the league.....what is expected does not always happen.

You have to respect the opposition......There is always a team on the otherside that cannot be ignored, they have aspirations too......They are there to thwart our aspirations and sometimes they do a good job too, we have to appreciate that, in order to know how to win properly.

Fulham lost to Birmingham when a win could have secured Automatic place......that result was no where near predictable.....its football.....2+2 does not always equal 4.

We have undoubtedly had some regrettable results during the season and some stonking ones too.....but by and large the lads have grafted for this.

I'm not disputing they've grafted. But he was brought in to get us promotion. Let's get that first , because trust me it won't be easy. And God forbid, we set up in a cautious manner, because for me, to let them take the initiative, will be a big mistake.

Let's see some exciting, attacking , confident, football. It's not like the team's not capable of producing it.

It wasn't that long ago we beat Wolves by playing with a bit of panache.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think when I talk about this subject, wages are neither here or there for me.

If you want a player from another club and they don't want to sell.....Transfer fee is the first Hurdle

wages are the next hurdle.

In past years, we never spoke about wages, it was a kinda behind the scenes issue in comparison to Transfer Fee's.

In that context, I don't think Steve Bruce has had that much to play with and that was the issue being debated.

To move on slightly, its brings up the debate, has he done well or not.....I think he has done remarkably well.

do I think the football has been optically nourishing....not really, but IMO he has chosen a workmanlike format to achieve his goals.....I have accepted that as part and parcel of it all.

I do not think it will always be like this under Steve Bruce.....If we go up, we will sign players with more guile and technique to play the game many of us crave.....At the end of the day, you play a style that fits the players you have and you buy the players that fits the budget you have.

In terms of the character of the squad, he has worked miracles in transforming the club from a toxic wasteland to a vibrant entity that has an ambition to get promoted, albeit in a industrious and durable manner as opposed to a cavalier swashbuckling approach, that could leave us wide open to a reversal.

On Tuesday Night 40,550 turned up to probably the loudest Villa Park I have heard in all my years watching them (since 1959).....Steve Bruce's name was ringing out very loudly indeed which left any fan in no doubt whatsoever what the majority of fans inside the ground think of him.....it finished 0-0 as you know.......that did not negate in any way the appreciation from the crowd for that man.

I find it amazing quite frankly that we are still having debates about him, in the fashion we do......I guess social media and all that comes with it is a factor, but I can't think of another manager in my time of watching Villa that has such an impact on the turnaround of fortunes of the club and still attracted detractors.

I accept every fans has a right to an opinion.....but how fascinating it is, that they can differ so much.

Just from an accounting standpoint, saying that he is under-resourced because he only has $5.00 in one account while he had &5,000 in another account is misleading at least.  (Numbers to illustrate the point only not to reflect any othe idea or ratios) (dollar signs used because they are the only ones available on my American phone.  

You assert he will play a different style when he has more resources.  Can you give an example in which a Steve Bruce side played in a  non “workmanlike style” (your words).   He has had more cash available in the Premier League.  When was a side he managed creative, free flowing, exciting.  

But now you’ve got me arguing again when I had decided not to, at least until the season outcome is known.  

If ya’ll don’t want critics offering views, it would be best if you stop arguing

Go Bruce!   Outsmart Fulham and equip the players to outplay them.  UTV

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

I think when I talk about this subject, wages are neither here or there for me.

If you want a player from another club and they don't want to sell.....Transfer fee is the first Hurdle

wages are the next hurdle.

In past years, we never spoke about wages, it was a kinda behind the scenes issue in comparison to Transfer Fee's.

In that context, I don't think Steve Bruce has had that much to play with and that was the issue being debated.

To move on slightly, its brings up the debate, has he done well or not.....I think he has done remarkably well.

do I think the football has been optically nourishing....not really, but IMO he has chosen a workmanlike format to achieve his goals.....I have accepted that as part and parcel of it all.

I do not think it will always be like this under Steve Bruce.....If we go up, we will sign players with more guile and technique to play the game many of us crave.....At the end of the day, you play a style that fits the players you have and you buy the players that fits the budget you have.

In terms of the character of the squad, he has worked miracles in transforming the club from a toxic wasteland to a vibrant entity that has an ambition to get promoted, albeit in a industrious and durable manner as opposed to a cavalier swashbuckling approach, that could leave us wide open to a reversal.

On Tuesday Night 40,550 turned up to probably the loudest Villa Park I have heard in all my years watching them (since 1959).....Steve Bruce's name was ringing out very loudly indeed which left any fan in no doubt whatsoever what the majority of fans inside the ground think of him.....it finished 0-0 as you know.......that did not negate in any way the appreciation from the crowd for that man.

I find it amazing quite frankly that we are still having debates about him, in the fashion we do......I guess social media and all that comes with it is a factor, but I can't think of another manager in my time of watching Villa that has such an impact on the turnaround of fortunes of the club and still attracted detractors.

I accept every fans has a right to an opinion.....but how fascinating it is, that they can differ so much.

Not sure i agree with that. Not that it really matters though, it was a fantastic atmosphere.