Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

Yes but at this very moment in time I would suggest that he has only achieved the bare minium of what is rightly expected of him, he has not achieved any more than this and what many others could/would have achieved - I would also suggest 

Quite right. And tbh, we haven't achieved anything yet.

So let's not count them you know what.

[NurembergVillan]

35 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

You are aware of why no one wanted to pay for the rights to Italian football in the past ? It just didn't excite, which, isn't what football should do ? At least IMO, anyway.

It's an interesting comparison but I slightly disagree.

Italian football to me is just a TV show.  I don't support any of the teams so I don't give a shit who wins.  I want to be entertained.

Aston Villa?  If we get promoted I'd happily watch us win 38 games by 1-0 and be rightly crowned the best team in PL history.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Lambert was a rubbish manager at a rubbish club and he produced rubbish football. His record since he left Villa seems to validate the first bit of that statement.

No - you are totally wrong imo - Lambert was a bright up coming manager - who was totally shafted by the club imo and how the heck he was expected to manage ASTON VILLA under such ridiculous constraints is beyond me.

Yes I agree that his record since leaving the club is dubious without question - but as I said earlier - he left us a broken man imo - with hindsight he should have stayed with Norwich 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

 I think Everton and West Ham fans both have delusions of grandeur about what sort of football they can expect to see. Both clubs remind me of Villa a few years ago - in chronic decline due to lack of effective investment and bobbing about in the premier league with little sense of direction. The fans expect fantastic football but the clubs are in no state to deliver it. Neither club was particularly wise IMO to sack their managers, West Ham in particular because Moyes did a pretty good job there. Sacking the manager won’t solve their underlying problems. Doing so suggests weakness on part of those clubs’ boards, seeking a quick win with fans rather than facing up to the real problems.

Fortunately we have started - only started, mind - to sort out our problems and the board didn’t to succumb to the online “sack Bruce” campaign around Christmas. And here we are a few days away from the playoff final.

 

Yet they publicly questioned the manager on social media. Let’s not make out Bruce had complete backing of the board and it was only the fans that were behaving irrationally

[briny_ear]

23 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet they publicly questioned the manager on social media. Let’s not make out Bruce had complete backing of the board and it was only the fans that were behaving irrationally

That!s why I said fortunately they decided to stick with him. Hopefully they will take the lesson. If they had been weak and gone for a quick shot of popularity on Twitter by appointing a new manager it’s a racing certainty we would not be in with a chance if promotion with a squad that nearly all Villa fans recognise is one of the most together and effective we’ve had for years.

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

And still to achieve promotion. So one step at a time.

I really don't see how wanting to see your team play exciting football, can be deemed as having delusions of grandeur, regardless of the clubs finance's.

You are aware of why no one wanted to pay for the rights to Italian football in the past ? It just didn't excite, which, isn't what football should do ? At least IMO, anyway.

Excitement isn't always exclusive to good football though is it? A lot of the time, poor quality football leads to the most excitement. Take a goalmouth scramble caused by a defender fresh airing a clearance/goalie making a poor clearance punch then 5 - 10 seconds of ping pong and the ball going in or being cleared off the line in comparison to Guardiola style slick passing movement and finish past a keeper.

I would wager that that the goalmouth scramble will get the heart racing a bit more. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

That!s why I said fortunately they decided to stick with him. Hopefully they will take the lesson. If they had been weak and gone for a quick shot of popularity on Twitter by appointing a new manager it’s a racing certainty we would not be in with a chance if promotion with a squad that nearly all Villa fans recognise is one of the most together and effective we’ve had for years.

I don’t think it is a racing certainty at all. As far as we know a new manager could have got us to top 2. Watford sacked their manager twice in a season and got automatic promotion so sacking a manager does not always have to mean a club falls apart. 

As it is we are one game away so it’s turned out well up to now. But again easy to say in hindsight. We will never know what would have happened had the club decided to sack him.

Had we lost to Boro they probably would have. 

 

[briny_ear]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think it is a racing certainty at all. As far as we know a new manager could have got us to top 2. Watford sacked their manager twice in a season and got automatic promotion so sacking a manager does not always have to mean a club falls apart. 

As it is we are one game away so it’s turned out well up to now. But again easy to say in hindsight. We will never know what would have happened had the club decided to sack him.

Had we lost to Boro they probably would have. 

 

Don’t wish to appear harsh but that’s the sort of delusion I am referring to.

[sharkyvilla]

21 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think it is a racing certainty at all. As far as we know a new manager could have got us to top 2. Watford sacked their manager twice in a season and got automatic promotion so sacking a manager does not always have to mean a club falls apart. 

As it is we are one game away so it’s turned out well up to now. But again easy to say in hindsight. We will never know what would have happened had the club decided to sack him.

Had we lost to Boro they probably would have. 

 

We did drop a few avoidable points but I think Watford are the exception rather than the norm.  Bruce had to turn around a juggernaut and is one game and a bit of luck away from saving us really.  

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

And still to achieve promotion. So one step at a time.

I really don't see how wanting to see your team play exciting football, can be deemed as having delusions of grandeur, regardless of the clubs finance's.

You are aware of why no one wanted to pay for the rights to Italian football in the past ? It just didn't excite, which, isn't what football should do ? At least IMO, anyway.

It is if you support a club that doesn’t have the infrastructure, finances, coaching and scouting set up etc., to produce a squad that is capable of delivering exciting football. 

And scapegoating the manager in these circumstances and calling for him to be sacked is equally deluded.

[sheepyvillian]

26 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

It is if you support a club that doesn’t have the infrastructure, finances, coaching and scouting set up etc., to produce a squad that is capable of delivering exciting football. 

And scapegoating the manager in these circumstances and calling for him to be sacked is equally deluded.

Have you seen Fulham, Bournemouth, or even Brentford play ?

I wouldn't say any of those clubs are flush when it comes to finances.

I remember Brendan Rodgers taking Swansea up by playing exciting football. Also you are aware of how much West Ham and Everton have spent over the last few years ?

Football is s game that was created to excite,  how else would it build up a fan base. Certainly not by playing boring, but effective football, except for a few maybe.

What's man utd's excuse for playing boring football, which they've done for most of the season ? 

There was a reason they changed the rules and made it three points for a win.

Edited May 18, 2018 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said:

Excitement isn't always exclusive to good football though is it? A lot of the time, poor quality football leads to the most excitement. Take a goalmouth scramble caused by a defender fresh airing a clearance/goalie making a poor clearance punch then 5 - 10 seconds of ping pong and the ball going in or being cleared off the line in comparison to Guardiola style slick passing movement and finish past a keeper.

I would wager that that the goalmouth scramble will get the heart racing a bit more. 

I'll take the Guardiola excitement every day of the week, if you don't mind.

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

It's an interesting comparison but I slightly disagree.

Italian football to me is just a TV show.  I don't support any of the teams so I don't give a shit who wins.  I want to be entertained.

Aston Villa?  If we get promoted I'd happily watch us win 38 games by 1-0 and be rightly crowned the best team in PL history.

That's not going to happen, trust me.

You might get plenty of 1 - 0 wins, but I wouldn't count on the excitement factor. 

My point about Italian football was that it became too boring. You can't expect people to be entertained by consistently defensive football, and as you said, you want to be entertained.

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet they publicly questioned the manager on social media. Let’s not make out Bruce had complete backing of the board and it was only the fans that were behaving irrationally

It will only be irrational if we get promoted.

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

We did drop a few avoidable points but I think Watford are the exception rather than the norm.  Bruce had to turn around a juggernaut and is one game and a bit of luck away from saving us really.  

Fair enough but it’s all unknowns. You could argue that Cardiff were in a worse state than us when Warnock took over and look at them now. 

I don’t think it’s fair to say calling for his head in December was irrational.

We had dropped out the playoff places and looked awful.  

Yes it would have been a big risk. One I personally didn’t think the club should have taken but if they had, i disagree that it’s delusional as @briny_ear mentioned to suggest that a new manager could have achieved what Bruce has to date. 

[Dodgyknees]

9 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Don’t wish to appear harsh but that’s the sort of delusion I am referring to.

Remember when we were told that Bruce was king for getting us into second for that short period before he **** if up again? That was also delusion? 

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Fair enough but it’s all unknowns. You could argue that Cardiff were in a worse state than us when Warnock took over and look at them now. 

I don’t think it’s fair to say calling for his head in December was irrational.

We had dropped out the playoff places and looked awful.  

Yes it would have been a big risk. One I personally didn’t think the club should have taken but if they had, i disagree that it’s delusional as @briny_ear mentioned to suggest that a new manager could have achieved what Bruce has to date. 

Absolutely not irrational at all I totally agree - I'm not afraid to say I wanted him gone - the play - offs were looking a long way off at this time.

its really easy now to say " told you so "  but I will not be bypocritical  and say this -  and I will also say that all he has achieved so far is  what was expected of him - Save the praises until he gets promotion  - nothing else matters - he will be gone otherwise and rightly so in my view 

[mjmooney]

9 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Have you seen Fulham, Bournemouth, or even Brentford play ?

Yes. And they're all staying down in the Championship. 

[sne]

One can kinda tell there is a break from games when that article or the win % start making rounds again 

[NurembergVillan]

9 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

That's not going to happen, trust me.

You might get plenty of 1 - 0 wins, but I wouldn't count on the excitement factor. 

My point about Italian football was that it became too boring. You can't expect people to be entertained by consistently defensive football, and as you said, you want to be entertained.

I think you've missed part of what I was saying.  I want to be entertained when watching Italian football because I have no skin in the game.  If it's not entertaining I may as well watch Antiques Roadshow.

With Villa, I can be excited and entertained by a tight 1-0.  The thrill for me is getting the win.

That said, I'm sure I'd soon get bored of turgid football but I think it's now a lazy accusation to throw at Bruce.  We've put in some exciting, progressive performances since Christmas and even in the 0-0 against Boro we played the better football and created 90% of the chances.

Outside of Manchester City there's no team in this league who plays exciting effective football every week.  And even they got dumped out of the Champions League because their brand of exciting football doesn't work against Liverpool's.

People have a right to want entertainment, but it's in the eye of the beholder.  Personally it's been years since I've looked forward to the next match as much as I have this season.