Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

They haven’t just been promoted. Keep up. 

It was more a response to the " good football, is the football that gets results " , and before Moyes and  big Sam took over those respective clubs, I think both appointment's were made with a mind to avoiding relegation.

That doesn't mean I don't think Wagner, Hughton and Benitez have done extremely well. 

[Stevo985]

20 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

It was more a response to the " good football, is the football that gets results " , and before Moyes and  big Sam took over those respective clubs, I think both appointment's were made with a mind to avoiding relegation.

That doesn't mean I don't think Wagner, Hughton and Benitez have done extremely well. 

And Allardyce and Moyes have done exactly what they were hired to do. Keep them up. The clubs have seen that they need someone else in each case to move them on to where they want to be so they've been sacked.

I really don't see what this has to do with my point. Neither of them were sacked for style of football. They were sacked because they're not good enough for where the club want to be.

[bannedfromHandV]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And Allardyce and Moyes have done exactly what they were hired to do. Keep them up. The clubs have seen that they need someone else in each case to move them on to where they want to be so they've been sacked.

I really don't see what this has to do with my point. Neither of them were sacked for style of football. They were sacked because they're not good enough for where the club want to be.

Exactly.

Whilst they may have complained about Allardyces style, if they'd won every game since he took over he would not have been sacked. 

[bobzy]

5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

It was more a response to the " good football, is the football that gets results ". 

Try starting at the shallow end.

....which was said because the entire post was about teams staying up.

How are your armbands?

[Vive_La_Villa]

I know many will disagree but it’s all about the next game. We lose and I don’t care how good Bruce’s stats were or how close we came. Ultimately he would have failed. 

Would I like to see him he given another chance? I honestly wouldn’t care either way.

But all of the above is irrelevant anyway because we are going to win and Bruce will be a hero!!

[TRO]

17 hours ago, terrytini said:

Nothing really I meant it light hearted sorry mate if it didn’t come out that way.........

.......I just noticed you’d agreed about the quality etc needing to be better and I thought it was an amusing opportunity to suggest you were knocking the guy .....I’ve no issue with anything you’ve said..

No,No Terry.....sorry for being so sensitive.

I know what the detractors are getting at, but for me he has done a very good job and at present that all I want to concentrate on.

I do genuinely believe that if we get up, the folk who have been knocking him will see a different ( progressive) approach from him......I don't buy this set in tablets of stone stuff.

There have been many occasions this season when SB has been directing them forward, moments like that do not strike me as OVER cautious......I think he is just cautious.

The semi- final was always going to be tricky with an away goal and us just needing a draw.

Interesting how the other semi- final only ended with the winning team having a one goal advantage, just like us.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

This is good, but blatantly misleading.

The most obvious response is that we are in the CHAMPIONSHIP so how can you compare Premier League managers records, less/more games, higher/lower level etc etc?

but they have better players to play in a better division.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

So now you do have qualms about us  having everyone in the opposition s box, when they get a corner ?

Check some of your earlier posts. It's not something I'm going to make up ?

I feel sure I haven't said that, because I am always mentioning it with others at the game....But I can't remember every thing I have written.....but could be typo on my behalf or a misinterpretation.

for the record......I would like to see our centre forward up front in a position to capitalise on a breakaway at opposition corners .....but I ain't the manager mate, he must have his reasons.

Look, Sheepy.....We have never had a manager I have agreed with everything they do.....I just support them when they do most of the things I agree with....Thats why I support Steve Bruce.

I would have no idea how to get this football team promoted.....so while i have reservations of some things Steve does, I bow to his greater knowledge and let him get on with it.

I see other managers do strange things, but its their job on the line, not mine.

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And Allardyce and Moyes have done exactly what they were hired to do. Keep them up. The clubs have seen that they need someone else in each case to move them on to where they want to be so they've been sacked.

I really don't see what this has to do with my point. Neither of them were sacked for style of football. They were sacked because they're not good enough for where the club want to be.

No, they were sacked because the majority of Everton and West Ham fans found the football being served up wasn't to their liking. The same reason big Sam was let go by West Ham. 

It's no secret that Everton fans didn't want Sam there from day one. Your correct though, IMO, at least, that they're not good enough to match the ambition of the respective owners.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Jareth said:

Bruce’s win percentage is entirely valid as a stat. We are not a premiership team in the championship, we are a championship team in the championship. The win rate is relative to the quality of the league. 

absolutely and abundantly .....spot on.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Neither of them were sacked for style of football

It's nowt to do with Steve Bruce, but Allardyce was sacked exactly because of the style of football. All the Everton fans I know, and it's quite a lot, absolutely hated the way he played and they all, every single one, wanted him gone. The board knew that, too. They even (amongst many other questions) asked the fans what they thought of Fat Sam. It had got to the point where (as often happens) the away support was chanting for him to go and they wanted their club back and all that stuff, that we know from O'Leary etc.

Anyway, to stay on topic, good luck Brucie!

[Vive_La_Villa]

47 minutes ago, TRO said:

but they have better players to play in a better division.

When I think of the some of the players we had under Lambert I’d say that’s debatable.

[poitier]

I know there isn't a great deal of love for Paul Lambert on here, but I'm not so sure that getting this squad promoted is a greater achievement than Lambert keeping us up for two seasons. That isn't a knock at Bruce, but he is managing the team in a generally supportive atmosphere from the owner, Lambert was having to firefight when everything was going down the pan. 

 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

No, they were sacked because the majority of Everton and West Ham fans found the football being served up wasn't to their liking. The same reason big Sam was let go by West Ham. 

It's no secret that Everton fans didn't want Sam there from day one. Your correct though, IMO, at least, that they're not good enough to match the ambition of the respective owners.

 I think Everton and West Ham fans both have delusions of grandeur about what sort of football they can expect to see. Both clubs remind me of Villa a few years ago - in chronic decline due to lack of effective investment and bobbing about in the premier league with little sense of direction. The fans expect fantastic football but the clubs are in no state to deliver it. Neither club was particularly wise IMO to sack their managers, West Ham in particular because Moyes did a pretty good job there. Sacking the manager won’t solve their underlying problems. Doing so suggests weakness on part of those clubs’ boards, seeking a quick win with fans rather than facing up to the real problems.

Fortunately we have started - only started, mind - to sort out our problems and the board didn’t to succumb to the online “sack Bruce” campaign around Christmas. And here we are a few days away from the playoff final.

 

[Dave J]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

To be fair he's not comparing it.

He's just stating a fact. It is the best since 1982.

 

You cannot conclude from that that bruce is better than, say, MON because as you say the records aren't directly comparable across leagues.

But you can say that it's a pretty good indication that Bruce has done pretty well.

Yes but at this very moment in time I would suggest that he has only achieved the bare minium of what is rightly expected of him, he has not achieved any more than this and what many others could/would have achieved - I would also suggest 

[Dave J]

21 minutes ago, poitier said:

I know there isn't a great deal of love for Paul Lambert on here, but I'm not so sure that getting this squad promoted is a greater achievement than Lambert keeping us up for two seasons. That isn't a knock at Bruce, but he is managing the team in a generally supportive atmosphere from the owner, Lambert was having to firefight when everything was going down the pan. 

 

Absolutely bang on the money - I could not agree more, when Lambert came here, we were all delighted at the prospect of a young  dynamic manager who played open expansive footballer - what the hell happened next ? The club yanked one arm up his back and said get on with it and quite frankly I don't think the guy will ever recover from his Villa mauling - he was a broken man when he left  imo 

[briny_ear]

Lambert was a rubbish manager at a rubbish club and he produced rubbish football. His record since he left Villa seems to validate the first bit of that statement.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

but they have better players to play in a better division.

That's all relative, and a bit of a cop out I feel.

Because then this now leads us down the old, have some of the best and highly rated players in this league so arguably underachieved or "Has the highest win percentage as he should" route.

Meanwhile the majority of our most recent managers had much, much poorer squads than were the average in the Premier League.

ALSO, the Gulf in class/money of the top 6 was much, much larger.

The Championship is a more even playing field.

I really feel you are stretching now @TRO. lol

[poitier]

20 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Lambert was a rubbish manager at a rubbish club and he produced rubbish football. His record since he left Villa seems to validate the first bit of that statement.

Rubbish.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

 I think Everton and West Ham fans both have delusions of grandeur about what sort of football they can expect to see. Both clubs remind me of Villa a few years ago - in chronic decline due to lack of effective investment and bobbing about in the premier league with little sense of direction. The fans expect fantastic football but the clubs are in no state to deliver it. Neither club was particularly wise IMO to sack their managers, West Ham in particular because Moyes did a pretty good job there. Sacking the manager won’t solve their underlying problems. Doing so suggests weakness on part of those clubs’ boards, seeking a quick win with fans rather than facing up to the real problems.

Fortunately we have started - only started, mind - to sort out our problems and the board didn’t to succumb to the online “sack Bruce” campaign around Christmas. And here we are a few days away from the playoff final.

 

And still to achieve promotion. So one step at a time.

I really don't see how wanting to see your team play exciting football, can be deemed as having delusions of grandeur, regardless of the clubs finance's.

You are aware of why no one wanted to pay for the rights to Italian football in the past ? It just didn't excite, which, isn't what football should do ? At least IMO, anyway.