TRO Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Davkaus said: If the football is pretty, and results start to fall away, questions will inevitably be asked. Results are all that matter; entertaining football is a nice bonus, but it's never kept anyone in a job. I think " Entertaining football" is an unintentional misleading statement. Taking the game to the opposition and taking them on offensively, can be entertaining in its self and requires elements of ball control, decision making, physical assertion, passion, and desire...some of those elements wouldn't necessarily be associated with "Entertaining" but they are IMO aspects of defensive play can be "Entertaining" to some fans, who appreciate the art......but it has to be allied to competence, composure and confidence. I think our problem, with the odd excepted player like JT , we are not entertaining anywhere on the field at anything, due in the main to the low grade quality we manage to muster too often, to be considered promotion candidates. Edited December 26, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I'd agree with that pretty much whole heartedly - the thing is, we as a club have made a conscious and deliberate decision not to build for the future - we've instead gone for a pragmatic attempt to get promoted this season - the plan, successful or not, ends in May. At the end of the year there will be no more Samba, no more Hutton, no more Terry, no more Jedinak, no more Whelan, no more Snodgrass, no more Johnson, no more Onomah - and most likely no more Bruce. We've sacrificed the more ambitious, longer term club building goals for a pragmatic attempt to go up in this term - somebody at the club believes that there is sufficient evidence that the style of play we're employing is robust enough to survive through the playoffs, Bruce's history indicates that's possible. In the long term and the medium term, that plan isn't going to help us at all, it's strictly 2017-18 and I think this is reflected in our one-season-squad. I haven't agreed with that policy and I don't agree with that policy - in terms of where we are though, we're on the ride and I don't think we can get off until the end, hopefully that's in the playoffs and hopefully it's good enough to get us through them. I'm not sure it will, but all we can really do is hold on tight and hope for the best. I think Bruce is a manager to get us through the club's first plan, I think a good chunk of our squad is here on that basis too and I think that plan ends one way or the other at the end of this season. I hope to see Bruce stride off into the sunset as the heroic figure that got us promoted, but one way or the other I think he'll be here until then. (Also, and I know it's a completely different scenario, but Tony Pulis would like to talk to you about this 'good play causes good results' thing). OBE a very well reasoned post and one I think we would ALL do well to embrace, whether we like it or not, but more importantly IMO YOU ARE RIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Yup - but 15 from the 15 before that is very, very good and 18 out of 27 sounds a lot better. We've got 38 from 23 games - that's okay. Only just OK, bordering on poor in fact. Remember the target at the start of the season was two points per game. 38 from 23 is way off that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Massive game for Bruce tonight. We’re out of the top 6 currently, and if Brentford give us another hammering (despite losing all their best players in the past 12 months) then I’m starting to think that his position will become untenable. The Middlesbrough match just got a lot tougher imo. We have to win tonight! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 17 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: If we keep him and the results are crap, we should sack him. That seems a sensible and logical process and conclusion. At the moment, the results aren't crap, we're sixth - the results are okay, they're not wildly brilliant but they aren't bad either. It's not a matter of the results "staying" crap, they'd have to change - so, for now, I say we keep him and in answer to your question, if things change then we should rethink that decision based on that change. For me, the results aren't the major reason to criticise Bruce - the football is the concern. The concern was always what if the results start to match the performance. The last 3 games has suggested that this has started to happen. If it continues we could end the year several points adrift of the playoff zone. That's when the club may as well act and start the long term rebuilding plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 If Bruce is to survive he needs to turn this around and start averaging >2.0ppg now. We're on a course to miss out on even the playoffs as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The concern was always what if the results start to match the performance. The last 3 games has suggested that this has started to happen. If it continues we could end the year several points adrift of the playoff zone. That's when the club may as well act and start the long term rebuilding plan. Boro have shown balls sacking monk - I guess it’s Gibson’s club though and he accepts the blame for mistakes - xia will probably believe the sky is made of chocolate if wyness tells him so . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 A loss tonight and he is not sacked then we will soon realise that Wyness & Round call the shots as Xia obviously does not give that much of a ****.. Bruces head is on the gauntlet now.. how long before the blade finally falls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eastie said: Boro have shown balls sacking monk - I guess it’s Gibson’s club though and he accepts the blame for mistakes - xia will probably believe the sky is made of chocolate if wyness tells him so . It is starting to look that way.. Do we protest against Wyness, Round & Bruce once it gets that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eastie said: Boro have shown balls sacking monk - I guess it’s Gibson’s club though and he accepts the blame for mistakes - xia will probably believe the sky is made of chocolate if wyness tells him so . Gibson must be quite close to the club and probably understands when it's time to act. I cant even imagine Xia even speaking to Bruce about what's going on. As for Wyness, the guy is just a con man. Sooner we are rid the better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: It is starting to look that way.. Do we protest against Wyness, Round & Bruce once it gets that bad? I'd rather that thsn seeing people call for our sugar daddy's head when he only just got here tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 26, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted December 26, 2017 29 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The concern was always what if the results start to match the performance. The last 3 games has suggested that this has started to happen. If it continues we could end the year several points adrift of the playoff zone. That's when the club may as well act and start the long term rebuilding plan. This all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 We need to win tonight. He knows that. I feel as though we are in a similar position to the one we were in pre Norwich. He went for it that day and we won. I think he will take the same approach today. I think that if we do go for it, we will win. The worry is that he will almost certainly revert to a negative approach against Middlesbrough! He is on borrowed time now in my view. It will be almost impossible for him to turn it around! Question of when and who rather than if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Davkaus said: If the football is pretty, and results start to fall away, questions will inevitably be asked. Results are all that matter; entertaining football is a nice bonus, but it's never kept anyone in a job. Agree with first sentence, slightly disagree with the second. Playing an entertaining brand of football will buy you more time. It's why Eddie Howe is still in a job and Tony Pullis has just lost one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Just seen the team. Very negative, very disappointing. I think he thinks we are playing Barcelona! It may be good enough to win, unlikely but possible. Why take that approach though? We need to win so go for it. Blow them away. He is finished here thank goodness! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted December 26, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 26, 2017 The line-up for today has to be a sackable offense. Both Whelan and Jedinak in midfield tells me, no creativity at all. My guess is he is trying to keep the one point he is starting out with 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 (edited) Jedinak and Whelan on? Are we preparing for a stand against a siege? Edited December 26, 2017 by osmark86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Very negative line up with Jedi and Whelan cm... however, it may just work, sit back and counter them ( I don't expect it to). Irrelevant of the result, I think Bruce won't be sacked until the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Jedinak offers nothing against a young energetic brentford midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villianusa Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Very negative line up with Jedi and Whelan cm... however, it may just work, sit back and counter them ( I don't expect it to). Irrelevant of the result, I think Bruce won't be sacked until the summer. I have played this formation with teams I have coached and it can be a negative or aggressive line up. I have played it where the front four don't come back unless any of the opponents back four come forward. Push the wide players on and make the fullbacks think about going forward. Play the attaching mid close to the forward and have them two work together to stop the two center halves moving forward, It is key the two centermids stick together and move in all directions as a unit. If they get pulled apart it could be trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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