DaveAV1 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, TRO said: I have been particularly disappointed in recent times with what we have produced from the academy......but i think SB is changing that and i am looking forward to seeing one make it soon. What is the evidence that Steve Bruce is promoting our academy? It's never been a strength during his past managerial career and he didn't use the last few dead rubbers at the end of last season to really have a look at any of our young prospects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: You've made some very good points. I cannot argue with those to be fair. I would be more confident with one more attacking player. I get why people have some apprehension. New season nerves, concerns over Bruce and how he's going to set us up and the memories of last season are all valid reasons to be sceptical. We've got the players though. Taking current circumstances/level into account, this is probably the best squad of players we've had in 20 years. The extra attacking player is Hourihane. You're spot on about him being a shadow of himself so far, but if he can get going, he's a perfect link between midfield and attack. Easily capable of getting 10+ goals and a bag of assists if he can find some form. Edited July 30, 2017 by wazzap24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, Zatman said: Gestede will get goals at this level. was our 3rd top scorer last season and made less than 10 starts That's more down to us being unable to create than Gestede, unless you think Steve Bruce's biggest failure was selling Rudy? Say what you like about the 4(?) goals he scored last season, Gestede was awful for us. No offence but I watched the games, the bloke was/is a dreadful footballer who might score a dozen goals from set pieces and do absolutely sod all else. Dragging this back on topic Bruce was right to move us on from him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, TRO said: I have been particularly disappointed in recent times with what we have produced from the academy......but i think SB is changing that and i am looking forward to seeing one make it soon. He has done nothing of the sort. He gave 2 players debuts last season and one was 3 minutes and the other never got a start. We had nothing to play for after February so he had no excuse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted July 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2017 We're wandering into off topic territory here, as the discussion point is Steve Bruce. Lets get back onto that please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Just now, Zatman said: He has done nothing of the sort. He gave 2 players debuts last season and one was 3 minutes and the other never got a start. We had nothing to play for after February so he had no excuse That's not true though is it? In your mind maybe, but they clearly still had an eye on the playoff spots until the Burton game. You're not counting Green which is fine, then there's RHM who had the contract thing and various injuries. I'm not saying he will use these players a lot next season, who knows, but can you tell me who should have gotten time that didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 3 hours ago, TRO said: Well lets wait and see......and if it all comes good, i sincerely hope there is a few on here who have the humility to recognise it. utv I'm not sure any humility is required. We all want Villa to succeed and will all be delighted when we do. Having a different opinion as to who may be the right man to give us that success shouldn't be a reason for any humble apologising or indeed any gloating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Zatman said: He has done nothing of the sort. He gave 2 players debuts last season and one was 3 minutes and the other never got a start. We had nothing to play for after February so he had no excuse His job? I can't imagine a world where Villa fans wouldn't be calling for blood after a bad run. Besides he gave Green a chance and clearly determined RHM wasn't quite ready. Other then them and maybe Lyden, who else is there? In any event our academy has struggled to create decent players for a while. It's a bit of a myth that we have a good academy if you ask me. Other than Gary Cahil I can't think of any exceptional talent we have produced other than if you count Gareth Barry (which I don't think you can) or maybe at a stretch Darius Vassell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 11 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: What is the evidence that Steve Bruce is promoting our academy? It's never been a strength during his past managerial career and he didn't use the last few dead rubbers at the end of last season to really have a look at any of our young prospects. Green Lyden Davis RHM Doyle Hayes I just think its improving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 11 hours ago, Zatman said: He has done nothing of the sort. He gave 2 players debuts last season and one was 3 minutes and the other never got a start. We had nothing to play for after February so he had no excuse Sounds a bit like heads you lose, tails you lose......if they come through on his watch its down to him.......good or bad, you can't be selective. didn't see folk falling over themselves to credit Vic Crowe for Brian little etc.....the glory was on Ron's watch so he got the praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I'm not sure any humility is required. We all want Villa to succeed and will all be delighted when we do. Having a different opinion as to who may be the right man to give us that success shouldn't be a reason for any humble apologising or indeed any gloating. i never meant it in the context you put it. i was merely pointing the bashing he has received from some quarters.....i just hope if we do fly.....they recognise it. at present if we won every match, i would be unsure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Only reason at this point I still have faith is because he has been promoted before in this league playing his style. It’s not saying much for him and he needs a strong start I’d imagine otherwise he might find himself unemployed when Christmas comes along as I can’t see the Dr keeping him if we have another season like last season. He has his own players in now, no more excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, TRO said: i never meant it in the context you put it. i was merely pointing the bashing he has received from some quarters.....i just hope if we do fly.....they recognise it. at present if we won every match, i would be unsure of it. Ah, but will it then be Bruce's accomplishment or the players? Because it if recall correctly, when it wasn't working last season it was down to the players and not Bruce. Here's hoping the ugly caterpillar we saw last season has transformed into a beautiful butterfly that will soar at the top of the table when the season ends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 34 minutes ago, TRO said: Green Lyden Davis RHM Doyle Hayes I just think its improving Ah you're missing the point TRO. Our Class of '92 are just sitting in the youth setup waiting to win multiple league titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said: Only reason at this point I still have faith is because he has been promoted before in this league playing his style. It’s not saying much for him and he needs a strong start I’d imagine otherwise he might find himself unemployed when Christmas comes along as I can’t see the Dr keeping him if we have another season like last season. He has his own players in now, no more excuses. This for me too. Though admittedly I am putting a lot more stock into his previous than I am last season, which was always going to be one hell of a stretch for any manager. The wheels fell off for 9 games in the middle, which *could* be attributed to a number of factors some of which were outside of Bruce's control. Either side of that we were in top 2 form despite not playing particularly 'attractive' football, so there are signs of positivity if you care to look for them. Basically shit or bust time. Get off to a flyer or a decision needs to be made fast. Unlike last season, I cannot accept that this squad won't be good enough and with the experience in it there would be time to pull it back. Edited July 31, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Worth saying that if we are to get £6-8m for McCormack he will have balanced his own spending whilst improving us immensely on paper. For that he will deserve credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 31, 2017 Administrator Share Posted July 31, 2017 On 23/07/2017 at 18:01, limpid said: Another reminder. If you are not posting about Steve Bruce it doesn't go in this thread. This isn't a catch all for anything you want to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, TRO said: Green Lyden Davis RHM Doyle Hayes I just think its improving Well its a tough balancing act isnt it. Results or integrate the youth, when of course the fans want both at the same time. I hope he continues to use them as its the only way we will know if they are up to it. If they arent then our academy needs a major re-think and then does Bruce get the time to do that if the results arent there? Edited July 31, 2017 by mykeyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I had a prior engagement on Saturday so didnt see the game and once I knew th result there was zero point in watching it on Youtube. Did Bruce set us up any differently, did he make us more attacking (0 goals might not tell the whole story). Are we any more confident in his ability to get us promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, dudevillaisnice said: Only reason at this point I still have faith is because he has been promoted before in this league playing his style. It’s not saying much for him and he needs a strong start I’d imagine otherwise he might find himself unemployed when Christmas comes along as I can’t see the Dr keeping him if we have another season like last season. He has his own players in now, no more excuses. Agree with this apart from it's not my only reason to keep the faith. Bruce has made some shrewd signings. As DDID alludes to above he deserves credit for the reshaping of the squad so far. This time last year we were heading into a season with Elphick, Westwood, Cissokho and Gestede as starters in a fully fit squad. Bruce has taken us a long way in the last 9 months and it's only going to get better over the next 4 weeks in that regard. Bruce's transfer record so far: Out: Gestede, Westwood, Ayew, Kozak, Sanchez, Veretout, Baker Loan out: McCormack, Tshibola, Gil, Cissokho, Gollini In: Hogan, Hourihane, Taylor, Lansbury, Bree, Bjarnason, Whelan, Terry, Samba, Elmohamady Loan in: Johnstone Every manager since I joined VT has dragged out the line about 'buying better than what we have'. To me he's the only one who has managed to do that with any consistency though. He's also addressed key issues we can all see (Whelan, Terry), something easily said but not so easily done as Bacuna and Richards being here shows. Not sure about a couple of those ins myself but he's more hit than miss so far. He's great with the media, honest enough with the fans, players seem to like him and even through the awful football served up for the vast majority of his time last year he made us competitive. Something his predecessors have all failed to do in the last few years. I'm amazed he's not getting the credit he deserves for that, especially with some of the players at his disposal. It's like a microcosm of the Lambert years diluted into 9 short months in that regard. The financial implications for missing out on promotion this year ramp all the pressure up to 11's. We have little margin for error. If the unthinkable happens and he doesn't last a year in the job then he'd still be able to say he's leaving us in a better state than when he took over imho. And who since MON could honestly claim that? Turns out, this bluenose potato faced dinosaur I was pretty unsure about has done us a solid. Edited July 31, 2017 by VILLAMARV virtual tipp-ex moment 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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