Steve Bruce

[briny_ear]

5 hours ago, av1 said:

Or maybe we could form an opinion on the fact that nothing much has changed since 30 odd games of dross last season?

Lets not pretend posters are getting on Bruce's back after 5 minutes in the job. The bloke has had 36 games last season, a full pre season, and the gameplan that failed so miserably last year hasn't changed one iota. 

 

 

Seriously, if you really think, having watched the pre-season games, that nothing has changed from last season, I wonder what games you have been watching? Did you maybe notice a few guys with names like Whelan, Terry and Elmohamady? Hasn't changed one iota?

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Seriously, if you really think, having watched the pre-season games, that nothing has changed from last season, I wonder what games you have been watching? Did you maybe notice a few guys with names like Whelan, Terry and Elmohamady? Hasn't changed one iota?

He means the style Brin or the negative approach.....no free flowing football.

Like someone said today......the talking is over, we have to see the season start.

[terrytini]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

He means the style Brin or the negative approach.....no free flowing football.

Like someone said today......the talking is over, we have to see the season start.

Hang on again.

I agree things have improved. Better players for one.

And I think I can see why Bruce does what he does. And I suspect he will tweak it enough (as in, be a little less defensive) to work. And good for him if he does.

BUT Again, very very very few are asking for 'free flowing football' - that's unfair.

Most would be happy with simply a less defensive approach.

Doesn't make them right, but that's not the same as asking for Barcelona, or exciting football, or free flowing football.

We don't - as of last term - score much. It's not certifiable madness to look at how we line up, how we play, and how many we score, and conclude we could be more positive, and that maybe we have the squad for it.

One silly example. We ended up with 5 full backs on the pitch today.

Fine, pre season, availability , who needs a run out etc. 

But, in a friendly honouring an ex Manager, couldn't we have finished with 5 strikers instead ?

Which would Keegans Newcastle have done ?

Dont misunderstand me, He has a plan, he's not daft, he's bought well, and there's a little bit of football showing through. And like every other fan all I care about is going up - that would mean lots of wins, and wins are worth going to see.

Buu really people suggesting he's negative are hardly 'flat earthers'.

 

[Dodgyknees]

If we play like we did today against teams we struugled against last season (Brentford, Reading, Derby.. anybody else really). We win this time. Still a week to go before we kick off as well so more time to get to ideal performance levels.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Hang on again.

I agree things have improved. Better players for one.

And I think I can see why Bruce does what he does. And I suspect he will tweak it enough (as in, be a little less defensive) to work. And good for him if he does.

BUT Again, very very very few are asking for 'free flowing football' - that's unfair.

Most would be happy with simply a less defensive approach.

Doesn't make them right, but that's not the same as asking for Barcelona, or exciting football, or free flowing football.

We don't - as of last term - score much. It's not certifiable madness to look at how we line up, how we play, and how many we score, and conclude we could be more positive, and that maybe we have the squad for it.

One silly example. We ended up with 5 full backs on the pitch today.

Fine, pre season, availability , who needs a run out etc. 

But, in a friendly honouring an ex Manager, couldn't we have finished with 5 strikers instead ?

Which would Keegans Newcastle have done ?

Dont misunderstand me, He has a plan, he's not daft, he's bought well, and there's a little bit of football showing through. And like every other fan all I care about is going up - that would mean lots of wins, and wins are worth going to see.

Buu really people suggesting he's negative are hardly 'flat earthers'.

 

Terry, I haven't made it up.....i read someone said freeflowin football.

now if you are not saying that fair do's....but it has been mentioned.

Look, If folk want to pick flies or criticise Steve Bruce, that's their call, they have to watch the team or not with that burden......because he will play firstly to the strength of his squad and secondly to win promotion and if that means 1-0 wins so be it.

If he can't bring in a new no 10 or a winger.....he will have to make do until he can

I would imagine in the ideal world he would want to play winning entertaining football.....now if someone tells me that is not so, because he has always been THAT way, i don't buy it.

I hear this " its the way we are set up" I'm sorry i don't quite get it......It doesn't affect JT or GW it doesn't affect JK.......when Hutton blows a howler, he is no good, nothing about setup.

I am expecting a more offensive performance from Hourihane and Lansbury now Glenn Whelan is on board and the defence has been strengthened, but if they can't hack it, I will look at them, not the manager and the way he has set it up......irrespective if they did it elsewhere.....they have to deliver.

I am not insinuating the manager is negated from everything, he sets up the formation for sure and dictates the tactics governed by many factors.....but if the players don't do their job, he is stuffed unless he can take them off , get to another transfer window or work on their errors.

The players ultimately have to stand up and be counted.....and it is clear to me, that is exactly the type of players he is getting in now.

Ps when Ron Saunders was manager.....I assessed the players not the way he set them up.

pps you say he has a plan, he is not daft, I agree, but that is not what many have said like he is clueless.

Edited July 29, 2017 by TRO

[terrytini]

4 minutes ago, DK82 said:

If we play like we did today against teams we struugled against last season (Brentford, Reading, Derby.. anybody else really). We win this time. Still a week to go before we kick off as well so more time to get to ideal performance levels.

Could be right. Certainly if we play like first half hour or do which, whilst nothing special, was a good mix of defence and attack.

 

[Zatman]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

Well, now he has fixed the defence......we will see if he focuses on the offensive bit.

the defence didnt need to be fixed

[Zatman]

I cant be the only one worried that we are going to set up vs Hull with 4 players starting all capable of playing full back. Taylor, Hutton, Elmo and Amavi with Bree on the bench

[VILLAMARV]

5 hours ago, VillaChris said:

I still back him but I also quietly smile at a few who thought after a pre season we'd come back playing majestic free flowing football...it ain't going to happen.

Dosen't mean we won't win games. I'd happily sign up for 20 1-0 wins right now but I doubt we're going to have many 3-2 end to end games next year.

And think about it for a second...why would SB change? Yes the club and fans want an entertaining team but if he starts attempting to play a style he's not really capable of coaching, we're going to go on another January style run and he's out of the door.

Better to stick to a basic gameplan that grinds out plenty of points and wins and keeps the fans reasonably happy (as everyone prefers to support a winning team in the end).

You can give them all the millions to spend but that's why likes of Pulis, Big Sam and SB never change as their football gets them years and years in the premier league and all the money and prestige it brings. I'd include MON in that group aswell. His gameplan wasn't a million miles away from SB's but we just had better players who could execute it.

Finally, in this thread a post I agree with 100%. Well said.

I also think GT would have enjoyed us playing out a 0-0 draw with Watford wherever he was watching from. He probably told Gomes which way to go.

[TrentVilla]

7 hours ago, VillaChris said:

I still back him but I also quietly smile at a few who thought after a pre season we'd come back playing majestic free flowing football...it ain't going to happen.

Dosen't mean we won't win games. I'd happily sign up for 20 1-0 wins right now but I doubt we're going to have many 3-2 end to end games next year.

And think about it for a second...why would SB change? Yes the club and fans want an entertaining team but if he starts attempting to play a style he's not really capable of coaching, we're going to go on another January style run and he's out of the door.

Better to stick to a basic gameplan that grinds out plenty of points and wins and keeps the fans reasonably happy (as everyone prefers to support a winning team in the end).

You can give them all the millions to spend but that's why likes of Pulis, Big Sam and SB never change as their football gets them years and years in the premier league and all the money and prestige it brings. I'd include MON in that group aswell. His gameplan wasn't a million miles away from SB's but we just had better players who could execute it.

Nobody thought we would come back playing majestic free flowing football, this is a Steve Bruce side after all. I don't understand why people come out with this sort of stuff, its just not true and its just an attempt to make peoples legitimate concerns and frustrations seem unreasonable.

And yes his football will win games, nobody is saying that it won't the question is will it win enough? A second question is his football good enough given the resources at his disposal?

It isn't really about entertainment, I don't think that is really peoples issue it certainly isn't mine. Sure entertainment would be lovely but I overall I want promotion and I don't much care how we get it, my issue is currently I'm not convinced the way Bruce has us playing will achieve it.

I was one of O'Neill's biggest critics but I absolutely disagree with your last point.

[Tommo_b]

Bruce is the man to get you out of this league that's a indisputable fact, so let's not doubt the manager before the season starts!

Football might be crap but the main thing is not losing and getting promoted, if that's the way Bruce wants to do it then that's fine by me.

[carewjust4u]

8 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

That works both ways.

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your comment, but surely you can recognise that we won a penalty, gabby had a 1on1, a goal disallowed and countless crosses into the box. Surely there must be some positive football in there somewhere?

[TrentVilla]

7 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your comment, but surely you can recognise that we won a penalty, gabby had a 1on1, a goal disallowed and countless crosses into the box. Surely there must be some positive football in there somewhere?

Well yes, I'm aware those moments happened in the game but they don't really change my overall opinion of Bruce, the football his side is producing, my view on what he is getting from the resources at his disposal or my views on the coming season.

The positives are as I previously posted mainly about the defence and to an extent the midfield. 

That we created two chances and got a penalty doesn't really change my view that we are pretty woeful going forward.

It doesn't change my view that on the basis of yesterday (and his tactics at Hull and Sunderland) our main tactic will be lump it to Elmo to win flick on's.

It doesn't change my view that we once again won't score enough goals.

It doesn't change my utter frustration that he had about £18m worth of his own signings on the bench because he seems unable to get the best of them.

We may well win the first 5 games of the season 1-0 and we will all be delighted. But right now, I'm not convinced by Bruce or more accurately his football.

We shall soon find out for sure if it's going to be good enough.

[mykeyb]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

 

Today I saw plenty of accurate passing,more movement,some little triangles up top, 

I wasn't at the game today so can I ask was this from the same players who you questioned the ability of when staunchly defending the manager or was just the new guys

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

Terry, I haven't made it up.....i read someone said freeflowin football.

now if you are not saying that fair do's....but it has been mentioned.

Look, If folk want to pick flies or criticise Steve Bruce, that's their call, they have to watch the team or not with that burden......because he will play firstly to the strength of his squad and secondly to win promotion and if that means 1-0 wins so be it.

If he can't bring in a new no 10 or a winger.....he will have to make do until he can

I would imagine in the ideal world he would want to play winning entertaining football.....now if someone tells me that is not so, because he has always been THAT way, i don't buy it.

I hear this " its the way we are set up" I'm sorry i don't quite get it......It doesn't affect JT or GW it doesn't affect JK.......when Hutton blows a howler, he is no good, nothing about setup.

I am expecting a more offensive performance from Hourihane and Lansbury now Glenn Whelan is on board and the defence has been strengthened, but if they can't hack it, I will look at them, not the manager and the way he has set it up......irrespective if they did it elsewhere.....they have to deliver.

I am not insinuating the manager is negated from everything, he sets up the formation for sure and dictates the tactics governed by many factors.....but if the players don't do their job, he is stuffed unless he can take them off , get to another transfer window or work on their errors.

The players ultimately have to stand up and be counted.....and it is clear to me, that is exactly the type of players he is getting in now.

Ps when Ron Saunders was manager.....I assessed the players not the way he set them up.

pps you say he has a plan, he is not daft, I agree, but that is not what many have said like he is clueless.

The thing that most people recognise is that we have one of, if not the best squad in the Championship. So if the team fails surely the finger of blame can't be at the quality of the players, it would be only logical to look at the way they are coached and organised?

[carewjust4u]

31 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Well yes, I'm aware those moments happened in the game but they don't really change my overall opinion of Bruce, the football his side is producing, my view on what he is getting from the resources at his disposal or my views on the coming season.

The positives are as I previously posted mainly about the defence and to an extent the midfield. 

That we created two chances and got a penalty doesn't really change my view that we are pretty woeful going forward.

It doesn't change my view that on the basis of yesterday (and his tactics at Hull and Sunderland) our main tactic will be lump it to Elmo to win flick on's.

It doesn't change my view that we once again won't score enough goals.

It doesn't change my utter frustration that he had about £18m worth of his own signings on the bench because he seems unable to get the best of them.

We may well win the first 5 games of the season 1-0 and we will all be delighted. But right now, I'm not convinced by Bruce or more accurately his football.

We shall soon find out for sure if it's going to be good enough.

 Fair enough, youre always going to have it's a glass full/empty scenario. To be honest I can see your logic and I can't  disagree with the reasoning behind your points. 

 

But for me we came into this league with one of the worst defences I have ever seen, we now have the best in the league. We came into this league with the most flimsy ineffective midfield I have ever witnessed, Bruce has almost fixed that. Attacking wise I can agree it's not the most effective and we will no doubt be frustrated at times, but with the quality of Kodija and gabby looking as though he's hungry, I have faith.

Last season I remember watching Bruce's press conferences and every time he'd bemoan the team's inability to keep the ball and play out his game plan. Since then he's bought in Whelan, Terry and Elmo who have all played well this pre season, mainly when it comes to playing the ball forward. There were a lot of times yesterday when the team looked intent on progressing down the pitch, which was rarely seen last year..which is what I was alluring to in my previous post.

 

As you said this is all pure speculation and the first few results will provide clarity. But, for me Bruce is no mug and I can see he's identified our weaknesses and is making progress, which is why I'm positive.

[DaveAV1]

29 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

But for me we came into this league with one of the worst defences I have ever seen, we now have the best in the league

I agree we had an exceptionally poor defence when we were relegated, but our defensive stats, i.e. goals conceded per game were virtually identical under RDM as they were under SB. The myth that he has strengthened us defensively are just that, a myth. In fact given that we have virtually sacrificed nearly all our attacking creativity, the defence should be good. It's all we do!

[carewjust4u]

19 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I agree we had an exceptionally poor defence when we were relegated, but our defensive stats, i.e. goals conceded per game were virtually identical under RDM as they were under SB. 

I haven't seen the stats, i'd be interested to see them if you can dig them out. I just remember us crumbling under pressure and condeeding almost every game in the last 10 mins. Watching RDM's villa was like watching Freddie Flintoffs boxing bout, lots of punches thrown (none of which connect), and absolutely no defence.

[Demitri_C]

Says he wants another or two pending on outgoings.

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Bruce is the man to get you out of this league that's a indisputable fact, so let's not doubt the manager before the season starts!

Football might be crap but the main thing is not losing and getting promoted, if that's the way Bruce wants to do it then that's fine by me.

It really isn't.