Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

And what's the win ratio?

whats the clean sheet ratio?

But I don't think people have claimed they haven't improved. Whereas people have actually said that Bruce has made us harder to beat. 

[DaveAV1]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

And what's the win ratio?

whats the clean sheet ratio?

The point is it's a myth that he's made us harder to beat. I'm not holding up RDM as a beacon of managerial light. Far from it!

[Tomsub]

7 hours ago, Junxs said:

Get Harry Redknapp in

a) he is a brilliant attacking manager

2) it would be so funny to nick him from blues just when they thought their future was brightening up 

 

Hello 'arry - have a good bank holiday.

x

[Stevo985]

7 hours ago, Junxs said:

Get Harry Redknapp in

a) he is a brilliant attacking manager

2) it would be so funny to nick him from blues just when they thought their future was brightening up 

 

Sacking Bruce and employing that crook would honestly be Rowett to Zola type decision making. 

[DaveAV1]

The argument against Steve Bruce is that we play poor, turgid, football with negative, outdated tactics that he can't change during or between games. After 34 games, which is almost a premier league season, he has had enough time to at least give us hope for the future, but he hasn't done that. 

The argument for is that he's done it before so he can do it again. It won't be pretty but he gets results. 

I'm sorry but all managers have varying experiences at the different clubs they manage. SB hasn't been a success everywhere, and so the evidence of past performance should be heavily weighted towards what he's done here. And that just isn't good enough. An average of 1.5 points per game won't make the play offs and only the bottom two plus SHA have scored fewer goals. It ain't working Steve and it doesn't look like you know how to change it. 

[blandy]

I thought and said that we wouldn't go up this season, that we'd finish mid table. That was because the shambles of a hollowed out football club just hadn't got and couldn't get what it takes within a single season. So in regard of not being closer to the play offs or whatever, it's kind of accepted (by me).

RDM was a strange choice and it was his inability to change the mentality of a shattered club that did for him. He had a pretty much impossible task, IMO, for the type of manager he is.

Cue Bruce. Now he is the type who can "sturdy up" mindset when he goes in to a job. He also understands defending. He's also bought pretty well.

Some time back, maybe after Cardiff at home, I wrote that there were encouraging signs of solidity and spirit, but that attacking wise we were miles off. I think I also said that when looking at the game, I could often tell who would be subbed off and when and who would come on.

Since then, the attacking play has remained clunky and ineffective and I can no longer predict the substitutions, but I can predict what Bruce will say after the game.

Once it gets to that stage, where fans know what the manager's comments are going to be, there's not a massive amount of time left to rectify things. Luckily for him, he's got the summer. He wanted and hoped that at this point, if not actually in the play offs, we'd be strongly showing signs of former and looking like a really strong side, laying down a marker for hitting next season running. But we're not, we're doing the opposite. There's no lack of effort from the players, they haven't given up and settled for sunbeds, but yet again the crux of it is coaching and team selection.

The coaching simply has to change, or Bruce is done for here.

People saying get rid of him, sorry but no, not yet. We've done the stability argument, so there's no point repeating it. But we haven't yet done the mentality part. In terms of past promotions, it's not so much that he's done it that is key, on the field, but the experience in calming nerves and providing assurance is massive, if we can get ourselves up around the top next season.

We've got a lot going for us, now. We've got a good squad, a bit of money, strong support, an experienced manager, great ground and facilities, good owner, the hollowed out club being rebuilt. The missing ingredient is only in the way we play, the coaching. Get that right and with a smile of luck, well be absolutely fine next season. Fail to address it, and the club won't go up, Bruce will lose a great job and things will turn antsy.

This club has been redirected, now the people in charge can't let it slip by failing to address the coaching problem. 

[HeyAnty]

20 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Playing devil's advocate- but would we have done any better if we made no signings in or out in January? Hand on heart who has improved the side- Taylor perhaps?

Is Bruce better working with limited players? Does he know how to manage players with technical ability? Why continue to play hoof ball since February when we sold our only target man and replaced him with a 5 foot odd munchkin? None of it makes any sense.  

Say it again, Club is to big for Bruce.  He isn't used to going out and having to break teams down.  His norm in the past was going in as underdog and other teams having to break his teams down. 

Balls over the top and into the wings, which I see is the only tactic Bruce is adopting, works to an extent against a team who is pushing up against you and playing a high line.

Edited May 1, 2017 by HeyAnty

[macandally]

A few on here have asked who would we replace Bruce with?  The easy option would be Slaviša Jokanović if Fulham do not go up.

Promoted Watford and has taken Fulham from relegation certainties to play off hopefuls playing a decent brand of football

Be good to see a "brand" of football even if it is slow to start off but believe he would suit the players we have

[Junxs]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Sacking Bruce and employing that crook would honestly be Rowett to Zola type decision making. 

Nonsense!

Redknapps teams over the years have always played good attacking football, he has achieved much more than Bruce, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Yes he's a bit of a crook, but if he stays at Blues and we keep Bruce - I think they'd finish above us even with the funds Bruce has and the 6 month head start. Redknapp knows how to get the best out of his players, wish I could say the same for Bruce - who at best can grind out a few results playing like the underdogs.

[DaveAV1]

13 hours ago, TRO said:

He inherited a strong championship squad......nah.

He inherited a decent Championship squad but a poor team. It's his job to make the squad into a good team, I'm afraid he hasn't done that. 

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I'm not pretending it was good. We should have sacked RDM because we had ambitions of promotion. 

But I really don't think it was the mess it was made out to be. 

Fair enough mate I can't agree with your point but I can appreciate why you might be unhappy with Bruce. I feel under RDM we would be fighting a second relegation whereas with Bruce he has steadied the ship which we needed for now. But next season for me there should be no excuse for not having a play off spot minimum.

 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

I thought and said that we wouldn't go up this season, that we'd finish mid table. That was because the shambles of a hollowed out football club just hadn't got and couldn't get what it takes within a single season. So in regard of not being closer to the play offs or whatever, it's kind of accepted (by me).

RDM was a strange choice and it was his inability to change the mentality of a shattered club that did for him. He had a pretty much impossible task, IMO, for the type of manager he is.

Cue Bruce. Now he is the type who can "sturdy up" mindset when he goes in to a job. He also understands defending. He's also bought pretty well.

Some time back, maybe after Cardiff at home, I wrote that there were encouraging signs of solidity and spirit, but that attacking wise we were miles off. I think I also said that when looking at the game, I could often tell who would be subbed off and when and who would come on.

Since then, the attacking play has remained clunky and ineffective and I can no longer predict the substitutions, but I can predict what Bruce will say after the game.

Once it gets to that stage, where fans know what the manager's comments are going to be, there's not a massive amount of time left to rectify things. Luckily for him, he's got the summer. He wanted and hoped that at this point, if not actually in the play offs, we'd be strongly showing signs of former and looking like a really strong side, laying down a marker for hitting next season running. But we're not, we're doing the opposite. There's no lack of effort from the players, they haven't given up and settled for sunbeds, but yet again the crux of it is coaching and team selection.

The coaching simply has to change, or Bruce is done for here.

People saying get rid of him, sorry but no, not yet. We've done the stability argument, so there's no point repeating it. But we haven't yet done the mentality part. In terms of past promotions, it's not so much that he's done it that is key, on the field, but the experience in calming nerves and providing assurance is massive, if we can get ourselves up around the top next season.

We've got a lot going for us, now. We've got a good squad, a bit of money, strong support, an experienced manager, great ground and facilities, good owner, the hollowed out club being rebuilt. The missing ingredient is only in the way we play, the coaching. Get that right and with a smile of luck, well be absolutely fine next season. Fail to address it, and the club won't go up, Bruce will lose a great job and things will turn antsy.

This club has been redirected, now the people in charge can't let it slip by failing to address the coaching problem. 

This is absolutely spot on. Great post Pete 

[sheepyvillian]

19 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Nonsense!

Redknapps teams over the years have always played good attacking football, he has achieved much more than Bruce, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Yes he's a bit of a crook, but if he stays at Blues and we keep Bruce - I think they'd finish above us even with the funds Bruce has and the 6 month head start. Redknapp knows how to get the best out of his players, wish I could say the same for Bruce - who at best can grind out a few results playing like the underdogs.

Hear , hear , nothing wrong with an old school crook ,especially if he as us playing decent football . What a relief that would be .

[Stevo985]

31 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Nonsense!

Redknapps teams over the years have always played good attacking football, he has achieved much more than Bruce, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Yes he's a bit of a crook, but if he stays at Blues and we keep Bruce - I think they'd finish above us even with the funds Bruce has and the 6 month head start. Redknapp knows how to get the best out of his players, wish I could say the same for Bruce - who at best can grind out a few results playing like the underdogs.

He's achieved nothing.

One FA Cup, at the cost of almost putting the club out of business.

He's a bang average manager, and he's the most dishonest, unlikeable bag of shit in English football. Which is saying something.

If we sacked Bruce and appointed that word removed, I'd return my season ticket.

Luckily the people running our club appear to not be clinically insane, so it'll never happen.

[Villaninireland]

Redknapp hates us with a passion. He would never come here thankfully.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

The argument against Steve Bruce is that we play poor, turgid, football with negative, outdated tactics that he can't change during or between games. After 34 games, which is almost a premier league season, he has had enough time to at least give us hope for the future, but he hasn't done that. 

The argument for is that he's done it before so he can do it again. It won't be pretty but he gets results. 

I'm sorry but all managers have varying experiences at the different clubs they manage. SB hasn't been a success everywhere, and so the evidence of past performance should be heavily weighted towards what he's done here. And that just isn't good enough. An average of 1.5 points per game won't make the play offs and only the bottom two plus SHA have scored fewer goals. It ain't working Steve and it doesn't look like you know how to change it. 

And using this logic, Huddersfield would have sacked Wagner last summer.

[wazzap24]

The big question for me is, not whether he's capable of recognising the problem, it's whether or not he has the mentality to change it and the staff around him to do so. 

I don't think he's a footballing dinosaur, but his previous jobs have required a different skill set to what is now required here. Even with his previous promotions, they weren't with teams carrying a weight of expectation anywhere near what he's facing next year. 

I think he knows what's needed, but does that fit with his natural tendencies and can he make the players believe in something, if he's not 100% sure himself? I worry that his default setting (organised, hard to beat etc), will continue to be at the forefront of his thinking. 

I'm sticking with him for now, but I'm having serious doubts for the first time. 

[dn1982]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Fair enough mate I can't agree with your point but I can appreciate why you might be unhappy with Bruce. I feel under RDM we would be fighting a second relegation whereas with Bruce he has steadied the ship which we needed for now. But next season for me there should be no excuse for not having a play off spot minimum.

 

Under RDM is he knew how to close out games he wouldn't have got sacked but at the time we still wanted to go for promotion so got Bruce in that's turned out badly so far. The football under RDM was a lot better but still a way off what we need. Bruce has been given a lot of leeway and he'll get the summer but I think he's used up all the good will already and will need results and performances from the off next year. This year we've been awful yet the results masked how bad we'd been playing. If we'd have lost v Blues I think he'd been in big trouble now but that one game will get him the summer. For me anything other than top 3 is failure but ultimately he has to get us up by hook or by crook. I think he will but to be here long term he needs to entertain. 

[DaveAV1]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And using this logic, Huddersfield would have sacked Wagner last summer.

You do have a point Stevo and United would have sacked Fergie etc. But perhaps in those cases they could see progress and saw that they had a plan. 

[wilko154]

For me Bruce is the type of stable manager that our club currently needs. He know's the league inside out and has proven he can get clubs promoted...

However the football we are playing is dire.

Earlier in the season he mentioned that training is taken by his coaches and he just oversees it. I think in the summer it may be that a backroom staff overhaul is required rather than a managerial change. For me we don't look to have improved since Calderwood has come in, possibly we look better defensively? But we need someone to come in and get the team playing passing, attacking football as Brighton and Newcastle are currently doing.