Steve Bruce

[TRO]

6 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said:

To highlight this, look at the two goals Barnsley scored from open play....apologies for the pics, I'm no Gary Neville...but this is so basic.....I really and truly expected Steve Bruce to sort this inept defending out as soon as he came in....

Look at Amavi's position for the cross. No pressue on the ball at all. Cannot stop the cross from 6/7 yards away. It's not even like he was trying to get there, he just runs alongside at that distance if you watch it back.

 

 

 

Cross comes in, Baker doesn't know where the 10 has gone. Chester also 'closed' position, but can at least see the Barnsley 10...although too far away to defend him. Any communication you think?

Note Hourihane's position relative to Baker and Chester

 

 

 

Contact made on the cross. Baker and Chester haven't moved...Hourihane only player even attempting a tackle/block...he made up around 5/6 yards whilst the other two never moved.

Look at Huttons body position in the corner there....is he aware of that Barnsley player behind him do you think?

 

 

 

 

Shot on goal....at this point it is possible that Johnstone could of saved the shot (yeah right!!)...had he parried it away across goal....do you think Hutton even now knows there's a player behind him? It's staggeringly bad....no awareness whatsoever.

 

 

 

One pic in build up to second goal:

We have SIX players all looking at the ball...SEVEN if you include the keeper. Look at the far post, Baker no idea where the man is....if the ball had been lifted across to the far post, it's a tap in! 

Bar Amavi and Lansbury who are trying to close down, all of those other defenders, plus the keeper should be turned through 90 degrees...so their back is toward goal. This is entry level basic defending surely, or have I discovered a new rocket science?

 

Sorry for the length of post and use of images, but if I can see this (and it's not a new thing)...WHAT THE HELL ARE THE COACHING STAFF DOING MONDAY TO FRIDAY?

 

Good to highlight it like that though......

Its just a comedy of errors.

but I've seen all those things in previous games.....and before Bruce.....its been going on for yonks.

I just can't believe a manager of his experience would set a team up like that......If It is him?......I am genuinely flabbergasted.

Edited February 22, 2017 by TRO

[sne]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

Really good article by evening mails mat kendriCk here -

Reacquaint yourselves with what Round said about the astounding level of due diligence that went into appointing Bruce:

"The number one target on my list was Steve Bruce," he said.

"When the manager search came back it was a 40-page document and the number one recommendation was Steve Bruce.

"It was an excellent fact to back up our instinct and advise the chairman – this is our one to six from that 10.

"In the end, we went with a recommendation to the owner. The owner made the decision and went with Steve."

It would take something drastic - and by that I mean relegation - for them to say 'ah, sod it, get Dean Smith or Gary Rowett in'.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-auditioning-keep-aston-12641326

All that says to me is that possibly more people than just Bruce needs to be replaced if things are ever going to change at Aston Villa.

If the number one target on your list is Steve Bruce, then I really have to wonder who the other people on the list where. And how that list was put together.

I agree Bruce was a solid, sensible "safe" risk free choice at the time we hired him (turns out he wasn't), but the number one target?

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

Sooner this is moved to non-football the better.

This squad should be performing better. Performance is measured by results. Results are rubbish. Manager is responsible for performance. 

@TRO You make tons of valid points about the "man/men" quality of our squad/performances, but the manger should have them or demand that they do better. I simply don't see evidence for that happening.

 

VK I do recognise my argument to keep him gets weaker by every match.....and I can tend to argue with myself on the AMOUNT of errors these players can muster in a match.....because that is the managers responsibility.

I do think disruption and rebuild to the magnitude we have done it , is a valid point, but one I can't say, how long it takes to fix.

I do know this and where i am with you guys.....we cannot lose games at the rate we are, unchecked.

in regards to the shambles i see on the pitch, i know who is responsible, not sure who is to blame.....not really sure its the same thing.

Edited February 22, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, sne said:

All that says to me is that possibly more people than just Bruce needs to be replaced if things are ever going to change at Aston Villa.

If the number one target on your list is Steve Bruce, then I really have to wonder who the other people on the list where. And how that list was put together.

I agree Bruce was a solid, sensible "safe" risk free choice at the time we hired him (turns out he wasn't), but the number one target?

The article is very long and well balanced by Kendrick and the quote above is just a small piece - well worth a read whichever side of the fence you are.

[sne]

Just now, Eastie said:

The article is very long and well balanced by Kendrick and the quote above is just a small piece - well worth a read whichever side of the fence you are.

No I read it and it was as you say a good article.

 

[LakotaDakota]

5 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Not saying I want to keep Bruce, I'm not fussed either way, but in respect to TRO I could see the logic in keeping Bruce if you compared Wagner last season at Huddersfield and this season, same manager but the season Huddersfield are having this season compared to last is chalk and cheese, I'm sure Huddersfield fans wanted Wagner to go last season, but look at where he has got them now a year into the job, whose to say Bruce in a years time will not have us challenging? 

Obviously at the moment it seems a million miles away to be anywhere near that level, but with this squad, and Bruce's experience of this league then it could be us next season going up.

But just to clarify, I mind either way if he stays or goes.

He wasn't exactly crap was he.

He took over after 15 games of which they had won 3 and were in/around the relagation zone, His record for the rest of the season was p31 w10 d6 l15.

Sure it's not as good as this year but he was new to the league/country and managing Huddersfield who were not one of the teams expecting to do anything other than survive/finish mid-table anyway.

They spent £500,000 on players last year & less than 4 mil this year

In The Jan transfer window alone we have spent more than Huddersfield have in their entire history

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, sne said:

No I read it and it was as you say a good article.

 

I don't normally say this( but we are not in a normal situation) because performances are a barometer to future success.....but,

We just need an elusive WIN.

[TRO]

24 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

He wasn't exactly crap was he.

He took over after 15 games of which they had won 3 and were in/around the relagation zone, His record for the rest of the season was p31 w10 d6 l15.

Sure it's not as good as this year but he was new to the league/country and managing Huddersfield who were not one of the teams expecting to do anything other than survive/finish mid-table anyway.

They spent £500,000 on players last year & less than 4 mil this year

In The Jan transfer window alone we have spent more than Huddersfield have in their entire history

so with that said.....Have we now got too many chiefs ( on the pitch) and not enough indians......just a thought?

[sne]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't normally say this( but we are not in a normal situation) because performances are a barometer to future success.....but,

We just need an elusive WIN.

A win would be nice.

But to be honest I've made my mind up regarding Bruce by now and there is no (realistic) set of events during the rest of the season that will change my mind.

We could obviously go on an amazing run and win 90% or so of our remaining games and then Bruce would have earned the right to remain. Anything is possible...

For me the rest of the season is all about getting enough points to stay up, and to find the right manager to replace Bruce.

 

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, sne said:

A win would be nice.

But to be honest I've made my mind up regarding Bruce by now and there is no (realistic) set of events during the rest of the season that will change my mind.

We could obviously go on an amazing run and win 90% or so of our remaining games and then Bruce would have earned the right to remain. Anything is possible...

For me the rest of the season is all about getting enough points to stay up, and to find the right manager to replace Bruce.

 

 

You say that now, because it looks like your stance is a safe bet.....but if it changes and a level of football is achieved that renders wins on a consistent basis, it will take a brave man to say get rid.

My point is winning and losing may be marginal in terms of fortune......in terms of praise or criticism they are worlds apart.

[sne]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

You say that now, because it looks like your stance is a safe bet.....but if it changes and a level of football is achieved that renders wins on a consistent basis, it will take a brave man to say get rid.

My point is winning and losing may be marginal in terms of fortune......in terms of praise or criticism they are worlds apart.

No, I say that now because of what I've seen and of what I believe.

Not because of the potential of getting bragging rights if we sack another manager after another failed season.

We all wan't Villa to succeed, you think we have a bigger chance of doing so with Bruce. I think we need someone else for us to succeed.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

The number one target on my list was Steve Bruce," he said.

"When the manager search came back it was a 40-page document and the number one recommendation was Steve Bruce.

"http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-auditioning-keep-aston-12641326

And yet, some of our fans, just normal blokes on a football forum with 9-5 jobs, didn't even need a 40 page document to know Bruce wasn't the right appointment. 

It made sense on paper and I, myself, thought Bruce was the right man. I was wrong; just like Round and Wyness were. They have to take the blame for this. If normal blokes posting on a football forum could see the warning signs then the blokes whose job it is to get these decisions right are accountable for **** that decision up. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

And yet, some of our fans, just normal blokes on a football forum with 9-5 jobs, didn't even need a 40 page document to know Bruce wasn't the right appointment. 

It made sense on paper and I, myself, thought Bruce was the right man. I was wrong; just like Round and Wyness were. They have to take the blame for this. If normal blokes posting on a football forum could see the warning signs then the blokes whose job it is to get these decisions right are accountable for **** that decision up. 

Yep. 

That worries me that they're so convinced by a 40 page document that they'll continue with someone who could potentially take us down. 

At the time that document was put together I'd imagine we were still aiming for promotion. Lots of things have changed since Bruce was their number one target. If they refuse to take those things into consideration then that's a concern for me. 

I'd love to know what evidence he has shown with villa that matches what was in a 40 page document on him. My guess would be very little. 

[Sam3773]

In October, I could have written a 40 page document as to why Bruce should be picked. 

Point one would have been his promotion CV. None can argue with it, he even got Hull promoted a couple of months before. And thats what we wanted, a manager who could come in and get the results to take us up. 

It'll be easy though, right? All you have to do is turn some of those draws under RDM into wins. Play offs in no time! And it worked, for a few games at least. More wins came and we started to believe again. "Don't look back in anger". 

Unfortunately since then, each game has presented a new starting line up in a new tactical position and our form sheet has more L's in it than a Welsh town. 

It hasn't all been Bruce's fault though. Injury and AFCON have forced changes, but not wholesale changes. Throw yet another lifeline in the direction of a certain shisha loving striker, and you're as good as condemned. 

Bruce came with bags of experience and promise. Not the manager we wanted but the manager we needed. Now he seems to cut a shape of the opposite. A man who doesn't know what he's doing, trying this and that each week until something fits. Playing negative, very defensive football in winnable games. 

The squad do need time to gel, absolutely, but that can't happen if the team and tactics are changed weekly. 

Bruce seems to be legion. A poor mix of Sherwood's rolling the dice, O'Neil's buy all the players, Lambert's dour going again and the hint of a McLeish blue coloured history.. 

He was never going to get long If results went south. I think he's had long enough. 

We go again. Next. 

[honest_bertie]

If you use a big font on a 40 page document it could reduced to far less. Bit small time to be quantifying hiring someone through the creation of something completely untangable and meaningless to the current situation. I hate it when things are justified like this, bit like the whole Scottish manager recommendation letter from Alex Fergason in the Learner era. 

[mykeyb]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

ok .....I value your opinion, but let me just say this....just one element picked at random  from many from Tuesday night.

• Jed aside, we could not win an aerial ball anywhere on the field.....I find it hard to directly blame the manager for that......Thats players going for the ball with no heart, just "shadow boxing" to coin a phrase.....some of these have just had massive pay rises.....they should be fired up. some may say its only headers this is where you gain or lose ground and begin to find yourself under pressure, if consistently lose out like we did.....it sends out messages too.....soft underbelly.....they( the opposition) grow in confidence and put you to the sword.

Thats whats happening in games in the first 15 minutes or so we start ok, get out muscled and can't find a way back in because the opposition have stolen the initiative.

I understand the overall gripe about the style and all the technical stuff not being done.....but we can't get the basic/ugly stuff done.

Ps If you can't win the ball.....you haven't got the ball to do anything with it.....it may sound a bit simple but its true......WE can't win the ball, we just chase after it.

This lack of fight which you mention, was it there under RDM ?

I am sure both you and I took that for granted under Bruce so the fact he can't generate at team spirit, desire or bottle is alarming giving we are battling for survival

[Tommo_b]

3 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

He wasn't exactly crap was he.

He took over after 15 games of which they had won 3 and were in/around the relagation zone, His record for the rest of the season was p31 w10 d6 l15.

Sure it's not as good as this year but he was new to the league/country and managing Huddersfield who were not one of the teams expecting to do anything other than survive/finish mid-table anyway.

They spent £500,000 on players last year & less than 4 mil this year

In The Jan transfer window alone we have spent more than Huddersfield have in their entire history

I don't know what Bruce's stats are since he took over off the top of my head, so hard to compare, but you can spend millions or you can spend pennies, look at Leicester City last year and this year, confidence and team spirit carried them to the title, we need some of that, and you only get that team spirit through time, same with a manager, if you get signed by a manager you want to play for that manager, you don't want to see him sacked 2-3 weeks after you have just signed, and what does that do for morale if the players keep seeing a new manager? 

Again not fussed on Bruce, but playing devils advocate, I'm 50/50 on wether he should go or stay? 

I actually at the time he was appointed would have rather stuck with RDM.

[Tommo_b]

Does our bad form coincide with Gollini leaving?

[Villarocker]

Turns out that Steve Bruce is a prophet after all. I just heard new weather forecast on the latest news bulletin and the forecaster said that storm Doris is about to land around 10am and that we should all batten down the hatches! 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

17 hours ago, ViewFromT2 said:

To highlight this, look at the two goals Barnsley scored from open play....apologies for the pics, I'm no Gary Neville...but this is so basic.....I really and truly expected Steve Bruce to sort this inept defending out as soon as he came in....

Look at Amavi's position for the cross. No pressue on the ball at all. Cannot stop the cross from 6/7 yards away. It's not even like he was trying to get there, he just runs alongside at that distance if you watch it back.

 

 

 

Cross comes in, Baker doesn't know where the 10 has gone. Chester also 'closed' position, but can at least see the Barnsley 10...although too far away to defend him. Any communication you think?

Note Hourihane's position relative to Baker and Chester

 

 

 

Contact made on the cross. Baker and Chester haven't moved...Hourihane only player even attempting a tackle/block...he made up around 5/6 yards whilst the other two never moved.

Look at Huttons body position in the corner there....is he aware of that Barnsley player behind him do you think?

 

 

 

 

Shot on goal....at this point it is possible that Johnstone could of saved the shot (yeah right!!)...had he parried it away across goal....do you think Hutton even now knows there's a player behind him? It's staggeringly bad....no awareness whatsoever.

 

 

 

One pic in build up to second goal:

We have SIX players all looking at the ball...SEVEN if you include the keeper. Look at the far post, Baker no idea where the man is....if the ball had been lifted across to the far post, it's a tap in! 

Bar Amavi and Lansbury who are trying to close down, all of those other defenders, plus the keeper should be turned through 90 degrees...so their back is toward goal. This is entry level basic defending surely, or have I discovered a new rocket science?

 

Sorry for the length of post and use of images, but if I can see this (and it's not a new thing)...WHAT THE HELL ARE THE COACHING STAFF DOING MONDAY TO FRIDAY?

 

Good post. I don't agree with it in full but it's a nice attempt at some analysis.

What it got me thinking, though, is when do the players need to take responsibility for not doing their job? 

I'm going to use Hutton as an example: he is 32 years old and has been in professional for seventeen years. His poor positioning in relation to the Barnsley player and lack of awareness is him failing to do the basics. If he needs coaching to tell him what to do there - at the age of 32 - then he should give up on football. It's ridiculous. 

Bruce is getting things wrong. There's no doubt of that. But he's not being helped out by players who are simply not doing their job.