Steve Bruce

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, Dave J said:

TRO - you must remember this - I am advocating for change- I too think he's a decent fella and desperately want him to do well. I repeat for what it's worth in my view he is not the long term solution. If we're not on the same page - we are at least in the same paragraph :-)

We don't need a long term solution.

We need a manager who can get us promoted and keep us in the premier league for a season or two.

Steve Bruce CAN do that, given his past history.

That doesn't necessarily mean he'll do it for us, but he's about as sure a thing as we could get in this league.

 

The current slump is worrying, but I still think he's more than capable of recovering.

[vreitti]

17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Blimey. That escalated quickly.

Calls to replace the manager are to my way of thinking, mental. Teams that have three managers a season don't succeed, you don't have to look far to see proof of that and what our club needs more than anything right now is a period of stability. I think we've achieved the most important thing we needed to this season; we've stopped falling. There's a long way for us to rise, but sacking the manager every three months isn't going to help. We need the team to bed in and the manager to bed in and that's going to take a little time, time that might well be punctuated by the occasional shit show like Tuesday, but time that needs to be given.

As ciggiesnbeer say above, for some of the fanbase, he's is not going to get much slack because we're sick of losing. That's not his problem, that's ours, we need to learn how to support a football club again, one that isn't self destructive and isn't falling to pieces, in that regard, it's not the manager that needs to change, it's us.

 

Agreed, but how many "shit shows" do we still have to endure, before it gets better? I don't think all that many expected us to be challenging for promotion right away. However most of us probably expected a Steve Bruce team to play proper football and 'die fighting', which hasn't been the case.

[markavfc40]

9 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

"I'm not really into tactics"

Oh dear he's not going to improve is he. Some of descriptions in article seem too familiar 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

 

 

That woman has written his managerial obituary. It seems it my have been a little premature though as she wrote it six years ago and since then he has had some success with two promotions and an FA Cup final.

I am not to sure what is going on in this thread and what the intentions are with dragging up fans of other clubs views from years ago. We have had a poor run of results and some poor performances over the last few weeks. In the managers defence I think he has struggled to get what were not his players to do as he has instructed them either because they are ability wise incapable or mentality wise shot. I am hoping he has now addressed a number of issues with the changes made in the transfer window.

Bottom line is that Bruce has been here four months and after a good start had a rocky period but over that time has also used it to identify weaknesses in the squad he inherited and addressed them. Now he has to find a formation and a settled 11 and stick with it. Then hopefully we will see the kind of results that attracted us to him in the first place. The kind of results that put four promotions on his CV.

Edited February 2, 2017 by markavfc40

[macandally]

Some good posts but for me we are currently stuck in a cycle of "bad Manager, get a new one, Manager blames players, gets new ones" rinse and repeat.  There is no continuity or game plan, pick a formation, but the players to suit and align the academy with that formation then stick with it.  As an ex-military guy I know training/drills are hammered into you so that when things go wrong you automatically resort to them.  We are changing formations/tactics too often which is confusing things.

Regarding Brentford, we were too deep throughout by a country mile.  Therefore, the long ball was the only outball.  Newcastle have decided to play aggressively from an attacking perspective acknowledging that at times it will cost them and they will lose games.  This "win more than you lose" philosophy is working and I believe this is what RDM was aiming for.  My worry is that with Bruce, every defeat takes us further away from playing this way.  We should go balls out and see what happens!

 

 

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, macandally said:

Some good posts but for me we are currently stuck in a cycle of "bad Manager, get a new one, Manager blames players, gets new ones" rinse and repeat.  There is no continuity or game plan, pick a formation, but the players to suit and align the academy with that formation then stick with it.  As an ex-military guy I know training/drills are hammered into you so that when things go wrong you automatically resort to them.  We are changing formations/tactics too often which is confusing things.

Regarding Brentford, we were too deep throughout by a country mile.  Therefore, the long ball was the only outball.  Newcastle have decided to play aggressively from an attacking perspective acknowledging that at times it will cost them and they will lose games.  This "win more than you lose" philosophy is working and I believe this is what RDM was aiming for.  My worry is that with Bruce, every defeat takes us further away from playing this way.  We should go balls out and see what happens!

 

 

Agreed play on the front foot and take the game to opponents instead of sitting back like frightened rabbits .

[TrentVilla]

 

I had little or no interest in giving Sherwood, Garde or Di Matteo time in the job. None of them did enough to deserve it or had done enough in their managerial careers before arriving here to warrant it.

Bruce did well enough early on and has achieved enough as a manager for me to be willing to give him time.

This is especially the case after he just signed half a new team.

I'll leave the tactical analysis and raging debate to others.

For me, he deserves and needs some time.

[wilko154]

17 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I had little or no interest in giving Sherwood, Garde or Di Matteo time in the job. None of them did enough to deserve it or had done enough in their managerial careers before arriving here to warrant it.

Bruce did well enough early on and has achieved enough as a manager for me to be willing to give him time.

This is especially the case after he just signed half a new team.

I'll leave the tactical analysis and raging debate to others.

For me, he deserves and needs some time.

This for me, a manager can't realistically be slated until he's had a chance to bring his own players in. He's now done this during the January window, we need to allow him more than one game to get his side playing properly together.

The poor form of late has been a worry but we aren't going to get playoffs this year and so we should be looking at giving the man till the end of the season to show what he's all about with a team of players he wants playing for him.

[VillaCas]

22 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I had little or no interest in giving Sherwood, Garde or Di Matteo time in the job. None of them did enough to deserve it or had done enough in their managerial careers before arriving here to warrant it.

Bruce did well enough early on and has achieved enough as a manager for me to be willing to give him time.

This is especially the case after he just signed half a new team.

I'll leave the tactical analysis and raging debate to others.

For me, he deserves and needs some time.

In general I agree with this and Bruce needs to be given until the end of the season to demonstrate improvement (barring absolute disaster) however I do feel that two or three more displays like Tuesday and things could get pretty hairy around here. He needs an improved performance Saturday and a win in the next couple to steady the ship.

A lot of pressure on Hogan, Hourihane and Bree to transform the team. Bjarnason is the new Westwood, Lansbury the new Reo-Coker neither will transform the team. We are still lacking options in midfield for me - can't do everything in one window I guess. We should already be looking at GK, CB, MF and a striker for the summer

On an associated point I have to stand up for Garde - he arrived into a shitstorm and wasnt given the slightest help. You can argue that he didnt give any sign of succeeding but I have a feeling that he could have been a good manager in different circumstances

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Blimey. That escalated quickly.

Calls to replace the manager are to my way of thinking, mental. Teams that have three managers a season don't succeed, you don't have to look far to see proof of that and what our club needs more than anything right now is a period of stability. I think we've achieved the most important thing we needed to this season; we've stopped falling. There's a long way for us to rise, but sacking the manager every three months isn't going to help. We need the team to bed in and the manager to bed in and that's going to take a little time, time that might well be punctuated by the occasional shit show like Tuesday, but time that needs to be given.

As ciggiesnbeer say above, for some of the fanbase, he's is not going to get much slack because we're sick of losing. That's not his problem, that's ours, we need to learn how to support a football club again, one that isn't self destructive and isn't falling to pieces, in that regard, it's not the manager that needs to change, it's us.

 

This is a great post.

I don’t know what has happened to us as a fan base but a run of half a dozen poor results under a manager, couple of poor performances from a player and we are like a pack of rabid dogs wanting them out.

As OBE said above somewhere over this last half dozen years of struggle some of us have lost what being a supporter is all about. Instead of supporting we are all too quick to do the opposite and jump on managers and players backs. There is no period of grace, no slack given.

Some may say it is fine it is a message board and a good place to vent. It doesn’t work like that though the negativity on here and other forms of social media does manifest itself at games. Poor half of football the team are booed off, half a dozen poor results and the odd shout of f off so and so manager turns into chanting for the manager out.

I think one of the issues is we aren’t allowing a cut off between the five year struggle under Lerner and the end of that period and beginning of a new one under Xia. We aren’t allowing enough time for all those wrongs to be put right. Instead a poor run of results and it is drop half a dozen players, sack the manager otherwise the worst will happen again. It won’t. As OBE said we have steadied the ship. We have stopped falling.

I think we need to back a manager and stick with him accepting there will be ups and downs but support them through those downs. Not any manager of course but those of us defending Bruce are not asking for any old manager to be backed. This is a guy who knows how to get out of this division. He is proven at doing exactly the thing we need. There is no one better qualified. He isn’t yesterdays man in that regard as some have suggested he is very much the here and now having got a team promoted nine months ago.

The owner can’t right the wrongs of the 10 years under Lerner overnight and the manager can’t right the wrongs of years of neglect on the playing side that instilled a losing mentality around the club in 4 months. It will take time and we as a fan base can’t force it by jumping on the managers and players backs at the first sniff of a poor run. It won’t work. It is counterproductive in fact.

There is an opportunity here for a real fresh start. Most of those associated with the years of struggle are now gone and we have stopped falling. Xia, Bruce, Wyness, Round, the coaches, most of the players had nothing to do with what happened in the past. We as a fan base now need to leave the feelings of hurt behind and back those who are here now and give them a chance to lift this club. It won’t happen overnight but with our backing it will happen.

Edited February 2, 2017 by markavfc40

[kurtsimonw]

At the absolute minimum Bruce needs to be here until October. Even then, that assumes that he's had an awful start to next season and has to be replaced.

[Woodytom]

42 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

I had little or no interest in giving Sherwood, Garde or Di Matteo time in the job. None of them did enough to deserve it or had done enough in their managerial careers before arriving here to warrant it.

Bruce did well enough early on and has achieved enough as a manager for me to be willing to give him time.

This is especially the case after he just signed half a new team.

I'll leave the tactical analysis and raging debate to others.

For me, he deserves and needs some time.

Roberto Di Matteo who won the champions league? Steve Bruce who has won.........?

I'm in the same position with Bruce, that me and yourself were in regarding RDM......... why on earth are people thinking he needs more time? The team hasn't shown a jot of consistency or improvement for going on 3 months..... and it's getting worse.

No fight, no plan, bizarre and atrocious decisions and an inactive clueless man on the touchline. 

No need to continue when there is people out there whose ceilings are not dour route 1 garbage.

[Woodytom]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think we've achieved the most important thing we needed to this season; we've stopped falling.

Seem to be falling pretty rapidly imo. A couple of months ago, Bruce's undoubted good start brought us to 3 points off the play offs. Now we're miles adrift with him having made a total arse of it since..... and bar a couple of late goals in otherwise dire performances, we'd be bordering on relegation fodder again.

[Godders]

Wow, what a difference 90 mins makes. 7.30pm on Tuesday and we're all chuffed with the business the club's done in the window. 10pm and Steve Bruce is a dinosaur, past it, with no clue and who won't take us anywhere.

Liverpool are in a worse run of form than pretty much any other team in the country. I guess Klopp is also a washed up has-been with no clue as to how the modern game is played.

Lets give SB the time he needs to get the new players on his (and each others) wavelength before jumping to conclusions.

[TrentVilla]

12 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Roberto Di Matteo who won the champions league? Steve Bruce who has won.........?

Sorry but I'm not biting

I've given my view, some will agree others won't. Everyone is free to their own opinion, I'm just not going to change mine based on any posts on here and I doubt I'll change anyone else's. 

So as I said, I'll leave the debate to others.

[PauloBarnesi]

In my opinion every manager has to have time and resources they deem to seem fit within reason. Bruce has bought the players he appears to have deemed fit and now its a matter of giving him the time. If in xxx months we are losing games, then its time to think again. He’s done enough IMO at Villa and other places to be given the time. 

[kurtsimonw]

12 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

I'm in the same position with Bruce, that me and yourself were in regarding RDM......... why on earth are people thinking he needs more time? The team hasn't shown a jot of consistency or improvement for going on 3 months..... and it's getting worse.

Di Matteo had plenty of time after the transfer window. Bruce has had, err, 0 games.

[sexbelowsound]

I'd give him until the end of the season and reevaluate then. By that point he will have had plenty of time with the players. 

I think he can turn it around, at least I hope he can. Unfortunately though Brentford truly was a terrible display from both the manager and the players and that wasn't a one off under Bruce.

The signs aren't great.

Edited February 2, 2017 by sexbelowsound

[striker]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Blimey. That escalated quickly.

Calls to replace the manager are to my way of thinking, mental. Teams that have three managers a season don't succeed, you don't have to look far to see proof of that and what our club needs more than anything right now is a period of stability. I think we've achieved the most important thing we needed to this season; we've stopped falling. There's a long way for us to rise, but sacking the manager every three months isn't going to help. We need the team to bed in and the manager to bed in and that's going to take a little time, time that might well be punctuated by the occasional shit show like Tuesday, but time that needs to be given.

As ciggiesnbeer say above, for some of the fanbase, he's is not going to get much slack because we're sick of losing. That's not his problem, that's ours, we need to learn how to support a football club again, one that isn't self destructive and isn't falling to pieces, in that regard, it's not the manager that needs to change, it's us.

 

Good post one which reiterated my opinion a few weeks ago but I'm starting to waver from that initial viewpoint.

It hasn't been 'the occasional shit show.' It has been a consistent run of games of poor performances with inept tactics that have given the initiative to the opposition.

I also strongly disagree that it is the fans that have to change. Do you expect the fan base to applaud more of the same from a manager who has a track record of promotions yet has presided over a plethora of performances that would have made McLeish proud?

It isn't the fans who are picking the team or employing tactics either that have arguably cost the club points against teams most would expect Villa to beat by showing a little more ambition on the pitch.

Neither McClaren nor Lambert have needed time or the fans to change to improve results at their respective clubs.

I'm not advocating the removal of Bruce yet but I and other fans should be able to voice their disapproval at recent results culminating in being stuffed by Brentford rather than being told we are the ones who need to change.

 

[Nabby]

I would say the reason some are getting frustrated is we are already we are  looking at next season unless we go on some kind of miracle run.

He has his own players now so lets see what happens , but as they are in the main his guys now he needs to take some responsibility in interviews and not put it all on the players.

Players where not great Tuesday but the tactics or the lack of them did not help 

[mykeyb]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

but haven't Leeds been down here for a while and had chance to bed a few players in prior to Gary Monk

Yes they have, the manager found a system that suited them and the improvement is there for all to see. Steve Bruce now has pretty much his set of players and its now his time to instill a system, improve what goes on during match time. The players are now of sufficient quality to produce better displays and more points. If he cannot do this then he will pay the price at the end of the season.