Tommy Elphick

[bannedfromHandV]

On 11/24/2016 at 13:02, Stevo985 said:

I did the Villa Park tour a couple of weeks ago.

 

Mr Elphick was very highly spoken about by the tour guide (who also does a number of other roles at the club I believe). One of the questions to the guide was which of the current players he'd met and liked and his first answer was Elphick.

He also showed us the speaker system Elphick had had installed in the changing rooms and tunnel at his own expense (and it was a proper sound system, thousands of pounds I would guess it cost) and said that he'd done a lot behind the scenes in terms of team building.

 

It's only the opinion of one bloke, and not the bloke that counts, but it certainly sounded like our captain is very well thought of behind the scenes. Obviously that means nothing if he's crap on the pitch (fwiw I don't think he's crap, far from it), but it would suggest to me that he isn't the type of person to be binned off in January just because he hasn't quite met expectations (yet)

What?

 

Has to be a first surely.

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

What?

 

Has to be a first surely.

Dunno. but it wasn't just like a cheap Bluetooth speaker. It was proper wired in speakers in the ceiling in the changing room and in the tunnel. The players could Bluetooth their music to them before and after the game.

 

the guy said Elphick had sorted it all out himself.

[TRO]

HE was struggling in a team where they were all struggling.

We are now winning/ not getting beat....He needs to resurrect his form in this side.

Steve Bruce and Colin Calderwood will help him do that being ex centre halves.

I think he was having the life drained out of him in the RDM team.

[TRO]

On 11/24/2016 at 13:02, Stevo985 said:

I did the Villa Park tour a couple of weeks ago.

 

Mr Elphick was very highly spoken about by the tour guide (who also does a number of other roles at the club I believe). One of the questions to the guide was which of the current players he'd met and liked and his first answer was Elphick.

He also showed us the speaker system Elphick had had installed in the changing rooms and tunnel at his own expense (and it was a proper sound system, thousands of pounds I would guess it cost) and said that he'd done a lot behind the scenes in terms of team building.

 

It's only the opinion of one bloke, and not the bloke that counts, but it certainly sounded like our captain is very well thought of behind the scenes. Obviously that means nothing if he's crap on the pitch (fwiw I don't think he's crap, far from it), but it would suggest to me that he isn't the type of person to be binned off in January just because he hasn't quite met expectations (yet)

If he does get sold and I hope he doesn't.....it will be the first time in English football that loose wires will be hanging from the dressing room ceiling as a direct result of a players transfer.

[TrentVilla]

 

He is so slow and partially at fault for both goals today, so disappointing.

[blandy]

He is slow. Not sure he can be blamed really for either goal, though. First one Gollini came and didn't getting there. Maybe you could say well if elphic had won the header....but basically Gollini made the wrong choice.

second one, Jedinak passed the ball straight to the forward. Elphic was the only defender to chase back. Where were the others? They were all wrong footed by Jedi giving the ball away, none of them were able to prevent the goal. Jedinak at fault  in the last minutes of a game we were chasing when we had the ball, the defence was positioned such that they would be flat for offside if the ball was knocked back upfield by Leeds, so when Jedi passed straight to them we were stuffed.

so, yes, maybe if he had been taller, or faster the goals might not have been conceded and I'd definitely pick Baker and Chester as the two best CBs and best pairing, but I think partial blame is a bit harsh. He couldn't stop the goals, maybe a better player would have. I think it's "blame" I don't like.

[AVTuco]

Not happy with this guy... has an error in him every game, a big one. Same kind of problems that Clark had. We need Baker back soon.

[Demitri_C]

Think it's a little harsh to blame him for the goals. Gollini was woeful for that first goal hesitated and then got nowhere near the ball. terrible goal keeping

the second jedinak sloppy pass. two mistakes we made all game and we're punished for both

[Lord Willard]

Partially to blame for the first goal. Got caught flat footed and lost his man. 

If baker was playing that would of been chesters man and I can't see him getting a free header if he was playing. 

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, Lord Willard said:

Partially to blame for the first goal. Got caught flat footed and lost his man. 

If baker was playing that would of been chesters man and I can't see him getting a free header if he was playing. 

It was chesters man anyway, he ran across Chester who didn't follow him, he's behind Elphick 

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

He is slow. Not sure he can be blamed really for either goal, though. First one Gollini came and didn't getting there. Maybe you could say well if elphic had won the header....but basically Gollini made the wrong choice.

second one, Jedinak passed the ball straight to the forward. Elphic was the only defender to chase back. Where were the others? They were all wrong footed by Jedi giving the ball away, none of them were able to prevent the goal. Jedinak at fault  in the last minutes of a game we were chasing when we had the ball, the defence was positioned such that they would be flat for offside if the ball was knocked back upfield by Leeds, so when Jedi passed straight to them we were stuffed.

so, yes, maybe if he had been taller, or faster the goals might not have been conceded and I'd definitely pick Baker and Chester as the two best CBs and best pairing, but I think partial blame is a bit harsh. He couldn't stop the goals, maybe a better player would have. I think it's "blame" I don't like.

You post directly followed mine so I'm assuming it was partly in response to it.

I didn't blame him for the goals, I said he was partially at fault and I think that is fair.

No question Gollini made the wrong decision I've said so elsewhere but the marking was really poor and he shouldn't get a free header from a cross like that when there was enough time to get in position. Gollini's error costs the goal but Elpwick contributed. I don't accept that it was his height or lack of that gave the Leeds player the free header his positioning and marking was poor.

On the second, yes again Jedinak is primarily responsible no question. But his lack of pace was horribly exposed, it doesn't really matter where other people were he was there and he was made to look pedestrian. Besides you wouldn't expect the full backs to be in that central position so it was only ever going to be Elpwick or Chester.

Most goals at this level are the result of individual errors, blame therefore follows. I'm not lambasting him for it, but I think it's entirely fair to say as I did initially that he was partially to blame for the goals. I don't really think it matters if that blame is the result of a mistake or a lack of physical attributes.

 

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

.... I don't really think it matters if that blame is the result of a mistake or a lack of physical attributes.

This is the nub of our different opinions. Because I absolutely do think it matters. I don't believe people should be blamed for lack of physical attributes. To me"I blame him for being short/not as quick as Henri/not as strong as costa" or whoever is just um, daft.

making mistakes, yes ,if they are repeated, then by all means attach blame. Though not making them means not learning, frankly.

my post really was about language. Understanding why something happened is important. Apportioning fault or blame is less so and can be counter productive. What caused this to happened and how do we prevent, or limit re-occurrences is the thing, not who do we blame or say was at fault. And if we must pick out who was at fault try and understand the circumstances. Being beaten in the air, or being beaten for pace are different to unforced errors in terms of giving the ball away or deciding to come for a ball that you shouldn't.

I think Ellphic seems like a good man and an average defender, I'm not trying to defend him particularly, just to put across a general view about stuff.

[TrentVilla]

 

To reiterate I didn't blame him for being too short and I don't think his height was a factor in the first goal, his poor positioning/marking was. He wasn't to my memory beaten in the air, he wasn't even challenging.

On the second you have more of a valid point I guess but I still think he allowed him to go past him too easily.

[PieFacE]

I don't think he's a very good player.  He's been incredibly disappointing.  

[VillaChris]

What's clear to me is Baker is a much better defender than him at this level, Chester agrees as he was in superb form in recent weeks.

[kurtsimonw]

Definitely not good enough to be 3rd choice. You obviously expect a bit of a drop off after your first choice pairing, but Elphick is such a drastic drop from Baker/Chester that it really hurts us. 

[VillaChris]

If you look at Bournemouth the year they went up when Elphick was a regular....it wasn't like they were keeping clean sheets every game, they were winning plenty of games 3-2/4-2.

We don't have the ability yet to outscore teams so in that situation Elphick gets found out particularly with an inexperienced keeper behind him.

[TRO]

On 12/4/2016 at 08:25, Demitri_C said:

Think it's a little harsh to blame him for the goals. Gollini was woeful for that first goal hesitated and then got nowhere near the ball. terrible goal keeping

the second jedinak sloppy pass. two mistakes we made all game and we're punished for both

I saw Leeds make some sloppy passes to us too....but we did'nt score?

[TRO]

On 12/4/2016 at 18:49, VillaChris said:

What's clear to me is Baker is a much better defender than him at this level, Chester agrees as he was in superb form in recent weeks.

Baker is much more commanding.....and that is an important feature for a centre half.

[TRO]

On 12/4/2016 at 10:55, blandy said:

This is the nub of our different opinions. Because I absolutely do think it matters. I don't believe people should be blamed for lack of physical attributes. To me"I blame him for being short/not as quick as Henri/not as strong as costa" or whoever is just um, daft.

making mistakes, yes ,if they are repeated, then by all means attach blame. Though not making them means not learning, frankly.

my post really was about language. Understanding why something happened is important. Apportioning fault or blame is less so and can be counter productive. What caused this to happened and how do we prevent, or limit re-occurrences is the thing, not who do we blame or say was at fault. And if we must pick out who was at fault try and understand the circumstances. Being beaten in the air, or being beaten for pace are different to unforced errors in terms of giving the ball away or deciding to come for a ball that you shouldn't.

I think Ellphic seems like a good man and an average defender, I'm not trying to defend him particularly, just to put across a general view about stuff.

Pete,I'm not so sure that is entirely true.

You cannot be blamed for things you cannot change like your height, granted.....but you can work on your physical attributes in other ways....Kevin Keegan was a prime example.

You can improve your upper body strength to cope with the physical challenge of more naturally physical opponents.....You can train to deal with this common challenge in todays football...Like rugby players & american football do....not saying they should turn out like them, but use their methods to improve resistance to the challenge.

Steve Bruce himself has acknowledged the importance of this aspect of todays game where the game is faster the pitch is the same size, so less space is available, its inevitable space is going to be denied and subsequently the business of winning the physical battles is absolutely crucial.

unless of course you can move the ball like Arsenal or Barcelona, then a different view can be raised.

If I had the opportunity of earning their salaries, I would make it my business to be physically prepared for the challenge.