Roberto Di Matteo

[TRO]

19 hours ago, Woodytom said:

I think the big thing for me is that overall there has been very little if any improvement from the 'basics' point of view.

PPl can reference new team this and new team that all they want but other 'new' teams cope. Not only that but spending 60m in the championship and failing to have any sort of plan is beyond unforgiveable. 

I honestly believe (and I said this in the summer). A solid defence with 2 wingers pumping balls into gestede and we will get out of this league. Why oh why it looks so difficult is beyond me. BASICS.

I could not agree with you more.....Its the basics that is missing.

as the saying goes " money can't buy me love"

It does not need a "sugar daddy" to fix this, nor does it need a sophisticated bunch of flow charts and data sheets.

The thing that is holding us back is players who are not consistently doing the basics......and at the moment it looks like a manager who is not insisting on it.....that may be cruel, but that is what it looks like to me.

[sne]

4-2-4 might work IF Jedinak and Tshibola becomes as good a pairing that people hope they will. (Massive question mark for me)

Still it will only work if we continue to attack all out during the games even after we take the lead. As soon as we take the foot of the pedal and become put under pressure this formation will fold like a cheap suitcase. 

Fwiw I don't see Ayew suited to play out wide in 4-2-4 as he clearly wan't to move central all the time. His "Ashley Young move" is getting a bit predictable even thou he almost scored with it last game against Newcastle.

Fact is we lack a 3rd CM to play 4-3-3, but I still think it's our best bet. Maybe Grealish can do a job as playmaker in CM?

Edited September 26, 2016 by sne

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

We are not playing in the premier league anymore.

Most clubs spend 2-5m at this level, that's what the likes of SHA and Huddersfield do anyway.

50m should be more than good enough to compete at the top.

We're replacing (almost) an entire team, though.  It's like people see £50m and think we're adding 3 or 4 top class players to an already settled side - this simply isn't the case.  Should we be doing better?  Of course we should.  A main problem is our central midfield which simply hasn't been addressed by the arrival of Jedinak.

We do have an abundance of attacking options and it is unbalancing the side.  I have no real problem playing Ayew and Kodjia wide but they shouldn't be wingers.  They should run the channels but, by and large, be forwards.  The more I think about it, the less I understand why we signed Adomah.  Are we going to be playing people who hug the touchline or not?  The balance isn't there on the left unless Amavi is the option... which means we're playing 2 of McCormack/Ayew/Gestede/Kodjia/Grealish.  If we're playing with wingers, surely we play Gestede and then one of the others.  Why spend so much on attacking players when, arguably, the best players we had in our squad are the attacking ones?

4-3-3 seems sensible, to me.  Flat back 4 with Jedinak and Tshibola/Westwood sitting deeper with the other of Tshibola/Westwood further up the pitch to get the ball from the central 2 and feed it to the attacking trio.  I'd probably then have Ayew and Kodjia playing wide of the 3 with McCormack centrally.  But then it makes more sense to have Gestede as a focal point... but then I'd want McCormack in our team.  So what is our strongest eleven?  I don't think Di Matteo knows.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I'm a fan of the 4-2-4.

Yes it's a bit old school mental, but I genuinely think it has a place in the modern game. 

It's more or less how we started the season and despite succumbing to a few cheap goals, we didn't really struggle defensively.

[VillaChris]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

We're replacing (almost) an entire team, though.  It's like people see £50m and think we're adding 3 or 4 top class players to an already settled side - this simply isn't the case.  Should we be doing better?  Of course we should.  A main problem is our central midfield which simply hasn't been addressed by the arrival of Jedinak.

We do have an abundance of attacking options and it is unbalancing the side.  I have no real problem playing Ayew and Kodjia wide but they shouldn't be wingers.  They should run the channels but, by and large, be forwards.  The more I think about it, the less I understand why we signed Adomah.  Are we going to be playing people who hug the touchline or not?  The balance isn't there on the left unless Amavi is the option... which means we're playing 2 of McCormack/Ayew/Gestede/Kodjia/Grealish.  If we're playing with wingers, surely we play Gestede and then one of the others.  Why spend so much on attacking players when, arguably, the best players we had in our squad are the attacking ones?

4-3-3 seems sensible, to me.  Flat back 4 with Jedinak and Tshibola/Westwood sitting deeper with the other of Tshibola/Westwood further up the pitch to get the ball from the central 2 and feed it to the attacking trio.  I'd probably then have Ayew and Kodjia playing wide of the 3 with McCormack centrally.  But then it makes more sense to have Gestede as a focal point... but then I'd want McCormack in our team.  So what is our strongest eleven?  I don't think Di Matteo knows.

I actually agree with a lot of that.

Bottom line is the owner has not invested so much already just for us to be treading mid table.

I don't expect us to be winning 4-0 or even every game but I did think once we got August out of the way we'd be flying.

Not hanging on for the Forest win was a massive blow I think, suspected it at the time and as others have said RDM has retreated back into his shell since that game.

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I actually agree with a lot of that.

Bottom line is the owner has not invested so much already just for us to be treading mid table.

I don't expect us to be winning 4-0 or even every game but I did think once we got August out of the way we'd be flying.

Not hanging on for the Forest win was a massive blow I think, suspected it at the time and as others have said RDM has retreated back into his shell since that game.

He has, but he recognised the changes needed against Newcastle.  A draw was a fair result there IMO - we could have lost the game by half time (RDM's fault) or won the game after the second half (to RDM's credit).

The game tomorrow will be very interesting.  Barnsley play a very open game which could suit us down to the ground as long as RDM doesn't try to play too defensively.  They tend to create a lot and concede a lot (similar to Forest).

Incidentally, according to our favourite stats website, WhoScored, this is a game between the 1st and 3rd(!) best teams in the league (Barnsley being 1st, us being 3rd).

[Tommo_b]

40 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

We are not playing in the premier league anymore.

Most clubs spend 2-5m at this level, that's what the likes of SHA and Huddersfield do anyway.

50m should be more than good enough to compete at the top.

You've missed the point I was alluding too. The landscapes changing, Brighton spend over 10 million on new players, and they already had a team that would've won come second if not for goal difference, the fact is, we needed to spend that 50 million just to have a squad, instead of the wasters of last season.

So for me, 50 million spend wasn't enough to improve us but to keep us standing still.

[Woodytom]

 

49 minutes ago, TRO said:

I could not agree with you more.....Its the basics that is missing.

as the saying goes " money can't buy me love"

It does not need a "sugar daddy" to fix this, nor does it need a sophisticated bunch of flow charts and data sheets.

The thing that is holding us back is players who are not consistently doing the basics......and at the moment it looks like a manager who is not insisting on it.....that may be cruel, but that is what it looks like to me.

Football is a simple game, made even easier for pragmatic managers like pulis and allardyce by other managers trying to over complicate things.

I'm not a football manager but I have some relevant qualifications and experience and with the right ppl around me, I could get a professional football team to

1. Clear the ball properly

2. Throw the ball to a player on our team.

3. Improve basic decision making 

4. Have a clear plan and shape

It wouldn't be pretty and it wouldn't win trophies but the BASICS would be instilled within the team. Everybody would know their job and the jobs of the other team members.

I'm just lost at what the previous 4/5 managers have been trying to do when the immediate issues are so blatantly obvious. 

Please don't read this as.... I could be a football manager at premier league level. I'm just merely highlighting that this doesn't need a genius or even a very good football manager. Just needs somebody whose not blinded by pep guardiola's style and who can see the wood from the trees.

Keep it **** simple. After all, it's as clear as day, we are dealing with utter morons who I imagine become lost at any remotely complicated instruction.

I would genuinely love to sit in a training session. I believe Id witness an utter shambles with regards the concept of coaching. 

[markavfc40]

5 hours ago, Woodytom said:

Keep it **** simple. After all, it's as clear as day, we are dealing with utter morons who I imagine become lost at any remotely complicated instruction.

I would genuinely love to sit in a training session. I believe Id witness an utter shambles with regards the concept of coaching. 

 

I wish you would have written this at the top of your post rather than at the bottom and then it would have saved me reading the rest.

You genuinely think our players are utter morons? A lot of them have been at the club 5 minutes and you are happy to describe then as that. The mind boggles.

I also don't think for a second the current coaching would be a shambles. I am not convinced by RDM so far but I do believe that alongside the vast experience of Clarke and Bond that they are not overseeing shambolic training sessions.

We aren't far away for me. We'd certainly be a lot closer had the manager not have lost his bottle and gone too defensive/negative over the last 3 games. We need to get back to the attacking formation and mentality we started the season with and if we do the results will come.

Edited September 26, 2016 by markavfc40

[Delphinho123]

He'll get himself the sack if he continues to shoe horn all of the signings into the same team.

We need balance. I'd like us to try this.

-------------------------Gollini---------------------------
Bacuna--------Chester------Baker--------Cissokho
-------------------Jedinak---Tshibola------------------
Ayew------------------Grealish-----------------Amavi
-------------------------Kodjia---------------------------

Elphick has been poor for a while now and Baker adds a little height. Amavi can't defend but why not try his pace and crossing a little further up the field?

Either way, 4-2-3-1 is the way forward. Anymore of this 3-5-2 and he's a dead man walking. 

[Woodytom]

 

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You genuinely think our players are utter morons?

I think that of the average professional footballer. Across the board they do very little to convince me otherwise.

I wish you'd have just written the bit I've quoted.... save me reading the rest of it.

[Dodgyknees]

Honestly, whilst I have shown my frustration recently. I still think we are going to thump a team and that'll make the difference for both players and fans as we go on a run.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 

I wish you would have written this at the top of your post rather than at the bottom and then it would have saved me reading the rest.

You genuinely think our players are utter morons? A lot of them have been at the club 5 minutes and you are happy to describe then as that. The mind boggles.

I also don't think for a second the current coaching would be a shambles. I am not convinced by RDM so far but I do believe that alongside the vast experience of Clarke and Bond that they are not overseeing shambolic training sessions.

We aren't far away for me. We'd certainly be a lot closer had the manager not have lost his bottle and gone too defensive/negative over the last 4 games. We need to get back to the attacking formation and mentality we started the season with and if we do the results will come.

Well, I have always believed attack is the best form of defence, but its easier said than done to be that intense for 90 minutes.....every team will have their moments in a game and we have to be capable of nullifying that threat or containing the opposition while we get a second wind.

I think we could be closer as you say depends if the coaches can get them to improve on the basics.....because that is all I think it is.

Watched West Ham, who have been playing well under Billic last season....They too need to go back to basics, organisationally they were awful.

Sometimes Mark, In an effort to entertain, they forget the fundamentals of the game....its not rocket science, we sometimes make it that way.

Sometimes we all have to go back to basics in all our jobs, no matter how much we know....if results are not forthcoming.

Ps We all want the team to play football ( and that final 25 minutes was great, just like times of old), but you "have to win the right to play football".....as the saying goes.

Edited September 26, 2016 by TRO

[jim]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

 

50m should be more than good enough to compete at the top.

Absolutely, providing it is spent wisely and on the right players.

Unfortunately, with the exception of McCormack and old codger. The rest of our summer acquisitions have been poor IMO.  

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Likewise mate.

My issue with 4-3-3 is that aside from Tish you are then looking at putting two sitting midfielders in alongside him, or three when he is missing, as that is all we have and I don't see the need for that in this league. I genuinely don't know but do many teams play with a genuine three in the middle in this league? I really don't think aside from maybe a handful of sides that the threat is there to require us to have three natural centre midfielders.

I don't advocate this playing Kodija or McCormack out wide. That to me is putting square pegs in round holes and accommodating players. Adomah is a natural wide player though and knows you have to track back and do the defensive side. I see Ayew now as more of a wide player than a central striker. Grealish is comfortable out wide.

I think you put two from Kodija, Gestede and McCormack up top, and play them as a genuine two then they will wreak havoc at this level. Defensively maybe we wil be vulnerable but if, as we did at the start of the season, we can pin team backs, play the game on the front foot and take the chances that will inevitably come then we can be comfortable in games and then make the changes to hold what we have and see the games out. Something we failed to do against Forest which then led to this overly negative approach and throwing the baby out with the bath water by the manager.

Then that for me comes back to the manager and his summer transfer activity, I don't think he addressed the lack of quality in central midfield as I said throughout the summer. 

But we are where we are.... so in terms of the squad at his disposal, while its limited in this area I still think he has options. For instance he could play Jedinak and Tishbola with Grealish in front of them in a variation of 4-3-3 it doesn't have to be three sitting midfielders. 

It isn't about dealing with the threat of opposition its more about providing a balance to effectively control and close out games something we've been horrific at for some time.

In terms of who sits out wide... in a 4-3-3 I think McCormack is fine coming in from the left, he was very effective at this during his time at Leeds. I don't like Kodija outwide, I think he is wasted and Grealish just isn't a winger in my view certainly not on the left.

For me Kodija would be the main man and main focal point in the middle and build around him. McCormack and Ayew as your options on the left, Grealish and Adomah your options on the right. McCormack or Grealish could also be your third central option in front of two more traditional midfielders.

That to me would be the way to get the best out of the players at his disposal and give us a little more in midfield than we've had to date.

I think we can still play on the front foot with this approach and take the game to people but have a more solid base from which to do so.

[markavfc40]

27 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Then that for me comes back to the manager and his summer transfer activity, I don't think he addressed the lack of quality in central midfield as I said throughout the summer. 

 

On that we agree which given the lack of options in that area leads me to believe it is, or at least was, his intention to only play two in there. Initially he went with a 4-2-4, more recently a 5-2-3.

27 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

McCormack or Grealish could also be your third central option in front of two more traditional midfielders.

I have no real issue with Grealish or McCormack in just behind Kodija as that to me is still very attacking with Ayew and Adomah as the wide options. That can actually then be a 4-3-3 or if the attacking midfielder pushes up pretty much alongside the main striker becomes a 4-2-4. The main man suited to that role would for me be McCormack. In fact we have already played pretty much that way on a number of occasions at the start of the season.

Edited September 26, 2016 by markavfc40

[Czechlad]

Why not try Jack as a CM in a midfield 3? He could be the playmaker. Jack seems to like drifting centrally anyway.

[BOF]

7 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

Why not try Jack as a CM in a midfield 3? He could be the playmaker. Jack seems to like drifting centrally anyway.

*Big cough* /smugmode  

[Czechlad]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

*Big cough* /smugmode  

I agree with your post. I think moving jack centrally can solve a lot of our issues on paper. Who knows if that will actually work though. Jack isn't the biggest player and there is a reason why we don't see many success small dribble minded center mids in the world. They typically get pushed out wide. 

[TRO]

It is common for a team to morph during a game and formations can change with the dynamics of the game.

The main thing for me is to get the players to punch their own weight and not have to rely on their mates to bail them out at every opportunity.....They have to cope and do their job in all aspects of the game.

That is not to criticise hunting in packs, that has its merits, but having to get someone else to cover too often leaves gaps and weakness.