TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I do. The first 6 games and the second half yesterday. If results had been just a little bit better over that time we wouldn't be having this conversation. Well no, but then if they had been a little worse.... They are what they are and by and large we have the points we deserve and that is down to Di Matteo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: In all fairness he's got a new squad here and he's trying to find the right framework in which they can succeed. That doesn't excuse the latest experiment, just saying. I still can't wrap my head around why he completely changed tact in the first place. We needed tweaking which is entirely acceptable this early on, but that was just bonkers. I had just started to enjoy going The Villa again. So cut the faffing and go back to that please. Thanks Robbie. See I don't really accept that. He had a huge amount of resources this summer, he had an opportunity to rip up the side and build it as he wished. But right now he is fumbling around trying to find a way to use the players he signed, because frankly it doesn't look like he had a real plan in mind when he signed them. If he had signed players to fit a structure and way of playing and it was simply taking them time to gel I'd be more willing to give him time but that clearly isn't what is happening 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Exactly. He could have changed it after about 20 minutes because it was obvious it was not working. That was my main gripe actually, not necessarily that he got it so badly wrong because after all, I'm not privy to what goes on during the week. They could have been working on this for months. Edit - though it is absolute bollocks. It takes balls to make a change early on yes, but it's easily explained to the player if it's clearly a tactical decision. We should have changed before the goal. That said at least he admitted his mistake at half time and we went on to be the better side by a distance, to the point where a draw was a fair result and I don't think it would have been unfair had we gone on to win. I think credit should always be given where it's due. Edited September 25, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: See I don't really accept that. He had a huge amount of resources this summer, he had an opportunity to rip up the side and build it as he wished. But right now he is fumbling around trying to find a way to use the players he signed, because frankly it doesn't look like he had a real plan in mind when he signed them. If he had signed players to fit a structure and way of playing and it was simply taking them time to gel I'd be more willing to give him time but that clearly isn't what is happening Where we are disagreeing is that I think he had a plan, I was enjoying watching said plan unfold. I thought we were very unlucky, unusually so, to not have a couple more wins under our belt. I was convinced that we were about to blow somebody away and start rolling. My annoyance stems from him ripping that up following one poor performance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Well no, but then if they had been a little worse.... They are what they are and by and large we have the points we deserve and that is down to Di Matteo. It would have been difficult for them to be worse, Forest for example had 2 shots at goal. Wednesday and Huddersfield down to mad random freak goals. Your narrative there doesn't fit. IMO. Edited September 25, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Where we are disagreeing is that I think he had a plan, I was enjoying watching said plan unfold. I thought we were very unlucky, unusually so, to not have a couple more wins under our belt. I was convinced that we were about to blow somebody away and start rolling. My annoyance stems from him ripping that up following one poor performance. Yes that is where we disagree. I don't think he had a plan to accommodate the players he signed with those he inherited that he wanted to retain. For me he just tried to stuff them all in, pack the side with lots of attacking talent and try and blow sides away. That's why I've likened it to Keegan. I guess you could call that a plan, personally I don't. We've been exposed and short of numbers in midfield since the start of the season and it's been evident in most if not all games. You simple can't just pack a team full of attacking players at the expense of a balance to the side and hope they click. For me he needs to decide which players he picks and which he drops and face the fact that some of those he drops might just be ones he has paid a lot of money for. But so far he hasn't been brave enough to do that and he has tried every approach you can imagine to try and fit them in. That hasn't helped the players and it's not helped the fans understand what he is trying to do. What we agree on is the post Forest implications of losing that 2-1 win and the negative impact it has had on him and his approach to games. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: It would have been difficult for them to be worse, Forest for example had 2 shots at goal. Wednesday and Huddersfield down to mad random freak goals. Your narrative there doesn't fit. IMO. We could have lost to Brentford, we certainly could have lost to Newcastle had they not missed an open goal. Did Ipswich not hit the woodwork late on? You can't say we could have been on more points without accepting there is a flip side to that coin. It has nothing to do with narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: We could have lost to Brentford, we certainly could have lost to Newcastle had they not missed an open goal. You can't say we could have been on more points without accepting there is a flip side to that coin. I'm talking about up until the Brentford game Trent. From there I am as equally disturbed as anyone, though the season is 9 games old not 3, or indeed 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: I'm talking about up until the Brentford game Trent. From there I am as equally disturbed as anyone, though the season is 9 games old not 3, or indeed 6. I don't see why there is a distinction between pre and post Brentford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: I don't see why there is a distinction between pre and post Brentford. Because there appears to have been a break in mentality and a shift to negative tactics at that point, which I find inexplicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Because there appears to have been a break in mentality and a shift to negative tactics at that point, which I find inexplicable. On that we agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 The similarities between him and Sherwood are there and its worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 25, 2016 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, AshVilla said: The similarities between him and Sherwood are there and its worrying. There is an argument to say he is worse given that he was backed and got the players he wanted... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, AshVilla said: The similarities between him and Sherwood are there and its worrying. Yes the similarities are frightening. Separated at birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 The "right framework" certainly isn't playing a number of players radically out of position. RDM just appears to have no clue at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 28 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The "right framework" certainly isn't playing a number of players radically out of position. RDM just appears to have no clue at all. In which games did we play a number of players out of position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I think at one point it looked we were one midfielder short of a winning combination, as stated above we were truly exciting going forward and creating chances and I do think the way we were playing was planned. I think most of us expected the combination of Jedinak and Tish to help end the spate of late goals as well as the new signings getting training and game time together as a team. But then RDM changed the tactics and all the good work and belief in us knowing what RDM was doing or trying to do vanished. Not helped by the Grealish incident and McCormack getting injured. He has to go back to the tactics he started with, just with the right players and without cramming in five forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 15 hours ago, Zatman said: biggest budget the club has ever head and 1 win in 10 games, Sherwood was sacked for less funny thing is with all the money we spent I can see him in a last ditch move calling for Gabby soon to save his skin No, Sherwood was sacked for 1 win in 10 games with 9 of those being losses. Definitely not less. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 16 hours ago, Zatman said: biggest budget the club has ever head and 1 win in 10 games, Sherwood was sacked for less funny thing is with all the money we spent I can see him in a last ditch move calling for Gabby soon to save his skin You love mentioning Sherwood. You forget to mention that he was **** abysmal who wrecked the team spirit and even cried like a little baby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, DK82 said: You love mentioning Sherwood. You forget to mention that he was **** abysmal who wrecked the team spirit and even cried like a little baby. we have had 4 shit managers in the last 2 years and he was the only one that made watching Villa enjoyable to watch not to mention a superior win record 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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