villarule123 Posted June 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 hours ago, sidcow said: I can honestly say that my time on VT would mostly be a depressing one without @lapal_fan to cheer me up with his utter madness. You should hear him on a headset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 hours ago, TheEgo said: 9 hours ago, Jareth said: We've got £82 mill debt? I'm trying to add the figures up that look odd to you. I don't know as of today what the debt is. I've said above at this point it's meaningless until we know what's next. I wouldn't be surprised if debt was at that level though as loans are levied against everything pretty much. If he proposes to absorb it though in a sale and take a loss then......... @snowychap and @Risso have a good grasp on the figures, they'll maybe no more about this. It is NOT pretty though which is why people are worried. Not trying to show any grasp other than having a look but on Recon Sports Ltd's acounts (note 17), it has a figure of £82.5m as loans and other borrowings. Is it that to which you're referring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Perhaps I'm wrong - I'm not an expert. However, I read this as quite simply over the last two years Xia has put circa £57m of his own money into Aston Villa as a loan and circa £69m of his own money into Recon has a loan. In effect, Recon UK and Aston Villa owed Xia this money. Understanding that they can't pay it back, and it showing as a debt on the books, Xia had transferred this to share capital, meaning instead of owning 80odd million shares at £1a pop, he owns £140m shares at a pound a pop. It doesn't mean anything directly, and it isn't a percentage of anything, but it's normally a precursor to a sale. A new owner won't want his new business owing the previous owner money. Xia doesn't have to sell his shares at that price. He's effectively written off monies owed to him by the club and Recon. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 16 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I appreciate everybody's opinions. Is it unheard of for businessmen to take large chances/gambles? A few points 1.He owed Randy another instalment so had we got promoted - thats another £20m or so on the outs column 2.He has taken advances on a good % of income - to fund a promotion push - effectively we now have no income - but still outgoings 3.Fraud - well a word with many uses, in a criminal sense NO - but he has talked up his wealth, and has a history of grabbing the headline without any substance - he has mis lead us 4.He made the totally left field appointment of RDM - 5.Would we be having this discussions had we beat Fulham ?- no - not yet - but the shaky foundations of Xia's Aston Villa reign would IMO have come to surface in due course... I just want him gone - I dread to think what his next scheme is - or even his next appointment of CEO or Manager. What he has done at Aston Villa is reckless vandalism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2018 13 hours ago, hippo said: 5.Would we be having this discussions had we beat Fulham ?- no - not yet - but the shaky foundations of Xia's Aston Villa reign would IMO have come to surface in due course... I just want him gone - I dread to think what his next scheme is - or even his next appointment of CEO or Manager. What he has done at Aston Villa is reckless vandalism Can you imagine he'd started playing in the big leagues, borrowing against future PL TV money and signing players in the current crazy market? At least the Championship is like playing at the $10 blackjack tables. Getting promoted would have given Xia access to the $10,000 tables. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 16 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: ...Same as with Lerner, people started giving him all types of shite and abuse, 1) WHEN we failed. Being wealthy doesn't necessarily mean crippling your whole personal fortune (Or lack there of) on a Football club because that's what fans want. 2) If we got promoted would we be having this conversation? We were backed to the hilt for 2 years, well knowing the risk of what the possibilities would be if we did not get promoted, WE WERE ALREADY MAKING HUGE LOSSES. 3) Shit businessman? Maybe. Fraud? I'm not so sure. 4) I think at worst he gambled/leveraged everything on promotion which would have probably been a springboard towards all of his other ambitions for the club/area. 5) Something obviously changed, or happened over the course of 2 years (aside from lack of promotion) to turn everything tits up for him. But I am hardly into the business of jumping on the bandwagon to 6) crucify people just because we haven't gotten what we want. ... 6) No the "Rich" guy from China who took a , as well as probably lost a shitload of money and reputation by doing so. EDIT: FYI they spoke about Lotus and so on losing money from the very beginning and it seems, JUST LIKE US, he was probably trying to turn already failing businesses into winning ones and has also lost that battle. 1) The abuse wasn't because we failed. The abuse came when the truth came out and people finally realised Lerner didn't give a shit. The same situation is now, no one is angry at xia because we failed to get promotion, the anger is at the lies and the terrible way he seems to be running the club. 2) Probably not but for me that is a really weak point. Promotion would have just hidden things better. And as i've said before, not being aware of bad things doesn't mean they aren't happening. 3) How can you be so sure? What can you point to that convinces you he is honest and truthful? Is there anything at all? 4) I think you have been hooked in a treat by him. Promotion would have just delayed things for awhile. There is no master plan. 5) I don't think it has at all. Journalists questioned this right at the start and some have said it since. 6) No one is doing this. 7) Just don't know what to say. You've turned him into a disney character. The unlucky hero, always trying to make the world a better place. Crazy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sne said: "Lend us a couple of (million) quid, mate. I'll pay you back next week, yeah " Edited June 26, 2018 by Chewie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, sne said: Fandabidozi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 9 hours ago, hippo said: 2.He has taken advances on a good % of income - to fund a promotion push - effectively we now have no income - but still outgoings This is one of those opinions that really bugs me. There is documentation to prove that we've cashed in on the Amavi sale money and the money we should have had from Sanchez's 2016 loan to Fiorentina. Although these things are not a good signal of the clubs finances, why do those two pieces of debt management mean that we have taken a good percentage of future income, and that we now have effectively no income?! Sanchez went to Fiorentina in 2016. In the same season we sold Gueye, Adama, Gestede, Clark, Ayew, Westwood and Sinclair. We also loaned out Cissokho, Gollini, Gil, Tshibola and McCormack. The following season we sold Baker, Sanchez, Amavi (coupled with a loan) and Bacuna, as well as loaning out De Laet, Gardner, Elphick, Tshibola and McCormack. Do people just assume that all of the staggered payments (as that's how the majority of football clubs work) for ALL of these players have also been cashed in? People read two things in the paper (Amavi and Sanchez money cashed in), and immediately think that we must have no other income of any form coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rob182 said: This is one of those opinions that really bugs me. There is documentation to prove that we've cashed in on the Amavi sale money and the money we should have had from Sanchez's 2016 loan to Fiorentina. Although these things are not a good signal of the clubs finances, why do those two pieces of debt management mean that we have taken a good percentage of future income, and that we now have effectively no income?! Sanchez went to Fiorentina in 2016. In the same season we sold Gueye, Adama, Gestede, Clark, Ayew, Westwood and Sinclair. We also loaned out Cissokho, Gollini, Gil, Tshibola and McCormack. The following season we sold Baker, Sanchez, Amavi (coupled with a loan) and Bacuna, as well as loaning out De Laet, Gardner, Elphick, Tshibola and McCormack. Do people just assume that all of the staggered payments (as that's how the majority of football clubs work) for ALL of these players have also been cashed in? People read two things in the paper (Amavi and Sanchez money cashed in), and immediately think that we must have no other income of any form coming in. Rightly or wrongly people have made that assumption. The combination of those two deals and missing the tax payment have led people to conclude that we are struggling to cover our outgoings. There isn't documentation, but when is there ? - you read the papers and decide for yourself whats true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Rob182 said: This is one of those opinions that really bugs me. There is documentation to prove that we've cashed in on the Amavi sale money and the money we should have had from Sanchez's 2016 loan to Fiorentina. Although these things are not a good signal of the clubs finances, why do those two pieces of debt management mean that we have taken a good percentage of future income, and that we now have effectively no income?! Sanchez went to Fiorentina in 2016. In the same season we sold Gueye, Adama, Gestede, Clark, Ayew, Westwood and Sinclair. We also loaned out Cissokho, Gollini, Gil, Tshibola and McCormack. The following season we sold Baker, Sanchez, Amavi (coupled with a loan) and Bacuna, as well as loaning out De Laet, Gardner, Elphick, Tshibola and McCormack. Do people just assume that all of the staggered payments (as that's how the majority of football clubs work) for ALL of these players have also been cashed in? People read two things in the paper (Amavi and Sanchez money cashed in), and immediately think that we must have no other income of any form coming in. So what is your explanation of us cashing in the Amavi and Sanchez money and missing the tax bill that makes it all OK and puts Xia in a better light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 @hippo There will be documentation on Companies House when the the club's Limited form has a charge registered against it. I don't think it can be done any other way. Unless people are suspecting that Tony could be selling off assets in illegal ways. Which I highly doubt Tony would be stupid enough to do (Yes, yes, ha ha, 'Tony is that stupid' etc etc. Yawn. But in seriousness, this kind of back-door dealing would be caught by the authorities in no time and Tony would be in a lot more trouble than he currently is, so that's why I highly doubt it). Just to add to the discussion, if it's interesting to others. I have found that Southampton and Hull have both had dealings with Macquarie Bank. Southampton appear to have a charge registered in 2017 where, I believe, they actually owe Macquarie a large portion of their Premier League earnings for the next few seasons. Regarding Hull, there was an interview with their owner where he was asked if they had taken out a loan from Macquarie Bank against the training ground, and he said no, but that they'd 'borrowed money that was due to us from other clubs'. It's not great, and as I said before, it's not a good sign for our finances, but, to me, it also doesn't seem to be the end of the world that many are predicting. Should other documents appear in the coming weeks and months showing that we've cashed in on many more of those TWENTY TWO other loan and transfer fees that we presumably have owed to us, then I will start to join the rest of you in the 'Tony is a fraud' camp. But until then, it seems to me that we've cashed two accessible pieces of income while Tony seeks investment via other sources that does not effect future income. That seems like the smart thing to do, in our situation, which is the least he can do, considering that he is part at fault for us being in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So what is your explanation of us cashing in the Amavi and Sanchez money and missing the tax bill that makes it all OK and puts Xia in a better light? Where have I said that it makes it all Ok? Point me to that post wont you. Unless you're just putting words in my mouth and trying to exaggerate my 'not everything seems clear' stance. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So what is your explanation of us cashing in the Amavi and Sanchez money and missing the tax bill that makes it all OK and puts Xia in a better light? As @WaccoeOnline said yesterday, cashing in a measly £1m last week when we were due to receive it next week anyway is possibly the biggest indicator of the mess we are in. Forgetting everything else, this alone should be setting alarm bells off left, right and center! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewFromT2 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 TONY XIA IN TALKS TO SELL CLUB MAIL EXCLUSIVE! https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/exclusive-tony-xia-talks-sell-14833584 "Aston Villa’s precarious future could soon be resolved as Tony Xia discusses takeover bids with two interested parties. BirminghamLive understands that Xia rejected a 51 per-cent offer from a European bidder yesterday. A financial package that would have met Xia’s requirements of up to £40million of investment was put forward - but he knocked it back. Negotiations with two other serious bidders are now planned as the Chinese owner tries to find a way out of the current mess." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: TONY XIA IN TALKS TO SELL CLUB MAIL EXCLUSIVE! https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/exclusive-tony-xia-talks-sell-14833584 "Aston Villa’s precarious future could soon be resolved as Tony Xia discusses takeover bids with two interested parties. BirminghamLive understands that Xia rejected a 51 per-cent offer from a European bidder yesterday. A financial package that would have met Xia’s requirements of up to £40million of investment was put forward - but he knocked it back. Negotiations with two other serious bidders are now planned as the Chinese owner tries to find a way out of the current mess." The right thing to do - good try but time to sell up Tony. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: As @WaccoeOnline said yesterday, cashing in a measly £1m last week when we were due to receive it next week anyway is possibly the biggest indicator of the mess we are in. Forgetting everything else, this alone should be setting alarm bells off left, right and center! As I've said all along. Alarm bells are ringing, and I'm sure others like me that are reserving full judgement ( @JAMAICAN-VILLAN / @Jareth perhaps?) would agree with that statement. But as we've been banging on about for weeks, we don't know the full picture. We don't know what has caused this current 'cash-flow' problem, if we can dare to call it that. Even if we'd been promoted, we would not have received any immediate money in time for the tax bill, so what caused that? Dr Tony maybe choosing to not put more of his own money in? Maybe a major f**k up by the senior managers who thought money would be available? Maybe something else we won't hear about until the next Mail Exclusive. Who knows. There are still big question marks over this whole saga, for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 27, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 27, 2018 I want dubious ITK about our ridiculously wealthy new owners right NOW!!! 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I want dubious ITK about our ridiculously wealthy new owners right NOW!!! Don't be so gullible JV. The new owner is automatically a fraud, because who would buy a football club with as much debt as we have 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, ViewFromT2 said: As @WaccoeOnline said yesterday, cashing in a measly £1m last week when we were due to receive it next week anyway is possibly the biggest indicator of the mess we are in. Forgetting everything else, this alone should be setting alarm bells off left, right and center! Just to add, we cashed in 1m that was due next week, but then the other 750k was due in January next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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