bobzy Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I don't understand the obsession with this "big club" stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted May 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Richard said: I believe us playing in the championship will be like a police man going in prison, all the inmates will want to kill him If that's the case, at least we have some source material to help us deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 31 minutes ago, blandy said: Utterly ridiculous hyperbole - on the last 3 in particular - not even a fervent fan of Charlton, Wigan or the Donkey Lashers would claim they are level with or bigger than Villa as a club. History? Yes, absolutely. Facilities? Yes. Support? Yes. On the pitch, where it really counts, does that make us any less susceptible to complete and utter failure? Theoretically yes. But we are not owned by theory. We are owned by a complete and utter disaster Pete. He's **** terrible. I mean super bad. I think he might be mentally ill actually and deserving of some sympathy. He will ruin this club if he stays, he will drag us down to the depths of League One eventually. We can bang on to all and sundry about how big a club we are all we like, soon enough nobody will give much of a toss. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: We are owned by a complete and utter disaster Pete. Yes, That's fine, talking about your views of owners is fine (though again, Blackpool's is far worse). I just think comparing the messes at those other clubs is different to comparing the clubs themselves. I'm not much fussed by "biggness", but I do believe Wigan and Blackpool and Charlton are differently sized clubs to Villa and saying otherwise rather undermines better points on owners or squads or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 I think what being a 'big club'* can often do when you're down and out is improve your chances of bouncing back. We will be a more attractive proposition down there than many of the other clubs, so as much as we're everyone's cup final, we're also a glamourous club to join. That should make it easier to bring in the right quality of player to come straight back up. It's also why I don't want Newcastle coming down with us, because they'd be a bigger fish to share the pond with than the other 2 contenders. Now you don't need to tell me that all of the above is relying on us getting the right manager and spending a few quid. That goes without saying, and is the same for any club. The point is, all things being equal, and in a scenario where we do end up with a competent and capable manager, this club, by virtue of being 'big' has a natural advantage with player recruitment. We just need to go and make sure we capitalise on that advantage. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, blandy said: Yes, That's fine, talking about your views of owners is fine (though again, Blackpool's is far worse). I just think comparing the messes at those other clubs is different to comparing the clubs themselves. I'm not much fussed by "biggness", but I do believe Wigan and Blackpool and Charlton are differently sized clubs to Villa and saying otherwise rather undermines better points on owners or squads or whatever. I didn't intend to say that we weren't. Only that being a "bigger" club does not provide us with some kind of invisible shield, in response to various posts suggesting that because we're a "bigger" club that we won't do a Wigan, or a Charlton, or a Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 1 hour ago, BOF said: I think what being a 'big club'* can often do when you're down and out is improve your chances of bouncing back. We will be a more attractive proposition down there than many of the other clubs, so as much as we're everyone's cup final, we're also a glamourous club to join. That should make it easier to bring in the right quality of player to come straight back up. It's also why I don't want Newcastle coming down with us, because they'd be a bigger fish to share the pond with than the other 2 contenders. Now you don't need to tell me that all of the above is relying on us getting the right manager and spending a few quid. That goes without saying, and is the same for any club. The point is, all things being equal, and in a scenario where we do end up with a competent and capable manager, this club, by virtue of being 'big' has a natural advantage with player recruitment. We just need to go and make sure we capitalise on that advantage. I agree entirely and like you I don’t want Newcastle to come down with us. It may be worth a chuckle at the time but the reality is that them coming down with us makes it more difficult for us to come back up. If they stay up then we are the biggest club in that division and should therefore, all things being equal, be able to attract the best players. As said earlier though to take advantage of that will first need an owner with the means, where with all and desire to ensure we maximise that advantage. I can see why some are totally doom and gloom because as things stand we aren't in any way set up to mount a promotion challenge next season. That can change though and I am happy to hold on to the hope that it will. It will almost certainly require this owner moving on or having a complete about turn in terms of employing the right people on to the board. Either way people with a bit of nous running the club should ensure the right manager is employed. Then being such a big fish in that division does come to the fore and everything else can quickly fall into place. If this club was to gain some forward momentum then the whole thing would take off and we as supporters, having been through so much crap, would embrace any sniff of a promotion challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 1 hour ago, BOF said: I think what being a 'big club'* can often do when you're down and out is improve your chances of bouncing back It works two ways IMO - generally they fall faster and rise faster. We got to stop falling before we can do the bouncing. At the moment it still feels like we're accelerating downwards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 Just now, blandy said: It works two ways IMO - generally they fall faster and rise faster. We got to stop falling before we can do the bouncing. At the moment it still feels like we're accelerating downwards. Hopefully the activity in the close-season will go a long way towards putting the brakes on our fall and kick starting the bounce. Be that a new owner, manager, recruitment policy, all of the above. There's also my belief that the quality of that league *spit* is greatly exaggerated. I don't think, for example, that we're in any danger of passing through the rear end of that league and into League One the following year, and history is on my side w.r.t. sides suffering consecutive relegations from the Premier League (even sides as historically bad as ours). The "gulf in class" is just as real as the "commitment" is down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Nabby said: Newcastle kept their decent players got a few decent pro's in and importantly a solid manager in Houghton who got them straight back up. All of which could happen to us, including the exact same manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: All of which could happen to us, including the exact same manager. I agree, we should be going for Hughton ahead of Pearson in my opinion. That guy has been a success at near enough all his roles. If Brighton fail to come up, Hollis should be on the phone to Brighton asking to speak to Hughton. I think Hughton would definitely be a brilliant appointment for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I agree, we should be going for Hughton ahead of Pearson in my opinion. Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 To Hughton's credit, I think the job he's doing at Brighton this time around, more than anything else he has done in his managerial career to date has set him out as a bona fide club manager, rather than the caretaker/fire fighter that he was perceived to be in the past. And I include Newcastle's promotion in that, because they were over-powered for that league and all he needed to do was steady that ship and not **** it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I know fans of a few clubs in the championship and one soon to be in the championship and I can tell you that when talking about next season all I am seeing is them saying that they are playing Villa. It is a huge scalp for them, no pressure on them. pressure on us every game. In addition there will be many many midlands derbies. Derby sha dingles Nottingham Forest Burton Walsall A quarter of our games potential Derbies with the added pressure of those clubs definitely wanting to beat us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 3, 2016 No doubt Richard. We are the Man Utd of that division. Which is why we need to use that status to our advantage in order to strengthen before a ball is kicked. Not to mention bringing in the kind of player who will revel in the role of the big fish rather than cower away from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Richard said: I know fans of a few clubs in the championship and one soon to be in the championship and I can tell you that when talking about next season all I am seeing is them saying that they are playing Villa. It is a huge scalp for them, no pressure on them. pressure on us every game. I don't think anyone would argue that we will be seen as a massive game to fans of other clubs and a big scalp to most down in the Championship. We have to try to counteract that by having better players than those clubs and ensuring those players apply themselves in the right manner ensuring they want the victory just as much. We have to ensure over the summer that we get a group of players together who are capable of that. As we have seen over the years ourselves against Manchester United simply being desperate to beat the big fish and take the big scalp isn't enough if the opposition, who are better on paper, approach the game with the right attitude. Edited May 3, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 12 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I don't think anyone would argue that we will be seen as a massive game to fans of other clubs and a big scalp to most down in the Championship. We have to try to counteract that by having better players than those clubs and ensuring those players apply themselves in the right manner ensuring they want the victory just as much. We have to ensure over the summer that we get a group of players together who are capable of that. As we have seen over the years ourselves against Manchester United simply being desperate to beat the big fish and take the big scalp isn't enough if the opposition, who are better on paper, approach the game with the right attitude. No doubt. Which is a worry because we are run by incompetents so I am convinced we will not do any of what you suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Just now, Richard said: No doubt. Which is a worry because we are run by incompetents so I am convinced we will not do any of what you suggest At present that is the situation yes. There is certainly a quick way back for this club though and a way to ensure that other teams raising their game against us should be of little concern and a challenge we embrace. It requires people running us with the nous and means to put the things in place to make that happen though which as you rightly state we don't currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 And with names like Comolli flying around the rumour mill, I'm less than convinced any changer of ownership will help us all that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Quote Under the management of David Platt, Forest were expected to make a push for an immediate return to the Premier League, but it all went wrong for Forest and they never looked anywhere near attempting a promotion challenge. In fact, they finished the season closer to a second successive relegation than the play-off places, let alone the automatic promotion places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_Nottingham_Forest_F.C._season This pre-season is **** crucial, the staff appointments, the manager, the player recruitment. Make no mistake about it, nothing is a given now. Based on the past five years I have zero faith in us getting any of the above right. We are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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