HanoiVillan Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Some people may be of the opinion that 'stabilising' at a lower level is beneficial for a short time. A few posters have expressed that view I think. The problem, obviously, is the financial implications from decreasing parachute payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 4, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Richard said: Here's a question. Do you actually want the club to get promoted ? if yes why? if no why not ? Yes for many reasons. Obviously being a supporter I want us to win everything. Getting promoted means we sorted out the mess to a greater or lesser degree. It means the club are going in the right direction for probably the first time since O'Neill left. It means we didn't go down again. It means we're back at the top table with the riches that go with it, and we didn't waste years languishing while the rich got richer and we got poorer, and worse - complacent. We should not be a 2nd tier club and I hope this is only going to be a blip in the history books. I already miss the Premier League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Pilchard said: Of course. Surely as a supporter of Aston Villa you would want them to be competing at the very top, winning every game they take part in. (I know the idea of winning games has become alien to us...) What makes you ask such a question? Why would anyone NOT want it to happen? I was listening to the radio last night and a Wolves fan came on and he was asked the same question. I thought it strange to be honest but nevertheless thought I'd pose it here. There is an argument that the premier league is tainted and all that it represents is wrong and so why should we want to be part of it continually trying to compete and not winning many games and always struggling But there is another view which says that the reason for being is basically that we should win matches and be competitive and so why would you not want promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Richard said: I was listening to the radio last night and a Wolves fan came on and he was asked the same question. I thought it strange to be honest but nevertheless thought I'd pose it here. There is an argument that the premier league is tainted and all that it represents is wrong and so why should we want to be part of it continually trying to compete and not winning many games and always struggling I think to be honest that kind of argument is used by people trying to convince themselves they are OK not being in the top flight to be honest. Similar to when someone mentions the Champions League and I say something like I never watch the competition and it's all about the money and I hate the greed etc. Should Villa ever fluke their way into it then I'm sure I'd be as excited as the most fervent fan for the draw, games etc, taking out BT and whatever else you need to watch the away games. Edited May 4, 2016 by Pilchard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Pilchard said: I think to be honest that kind of argument is used by people trying to convince themselves they are OK not being in the top flight to be honest. Similar to when someone mentions the Champions League and I say something like I never watch the competition and it's all about the money and I hate the greed etc. Should Villa ever fluke their way into it then I'm sure I'd be as excited as the most fervent fan for the draw, games etc, taking out BT and whatever else you need to watch the away games. Would this make you in favour of a European breakaway league, as long as Villa are in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaspg Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 even if premier league is tainted and all wrong, it still remains the top tier. id take a season of getting the odd hammering and ending up midtable in the premier league over breezing through a more entertaining championship. i think thats what those two argument boils down too, being entertained or trying to be the best club we can possibly be. Guess there are pro's and con's to both sides but i can never see my self being happy sitting in the championship knowing theres a tier with more quality above us. we belong in the premier league and ill cry my self to sleep every night until we are back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 On 5/2/2016 at 21:21, Mantis said: That doesn't really make much sense. Clubs aren't going to be more motivated to beat us in the Championship than in one-off cup games. I don't think you can make too many comparisons to the cups. we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Just now, bobzy said: Would this make you in favour of a European breakaway league, as long as Villa are in it? To be honest I have no idea. Villa have ruined club football so much for me over the past few years I haven't given thought to such a thing. I do tend to have a 'Villa First' attitude when it comes to that kind of stuff - so I suspect I would. I think we're light years away from being invited to such a thing though to be honest - even if we had stayed up. In fact, such a league might help us get back up into the top flight filling the void left by teams that have 'moved on'. And hopefully UEFA would make a monumental cock up like they did with taking the CL off the free-to-air channels, viewing figures will be low and it'll end up a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, tomaspg said: even if premier league is tainted and all wrong, it still remains the top tier. id take a season of getting the odd hammering and ending up midtable in the premier league over breezing through a more entertaining championship. i think thats what those two argument boils down too, being entertained or trying to be the best club we can possibly be. thats been the dream for 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us To be fair, if we go into it with a similar set up to what we've got now they'll soon realise that's not the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us I never denied this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us 7 Seconds into the Televised Walsall / Fleetwood game the commentator said promotion would mean playing at big venues like Villa Park ...make no mistake we will be a huge team in that league and one everyone will enjoy beating.Also going into the league with years and years of poor home form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Zatman said: we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us Doesn't matter if we have the best players in the league, whether that happens is a separate issue. if we can start making Villa Park a fortress again, teams might be excited playing there but they will be intimidated also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Zatman said: we will be the biggest fish in league, all teams will raise their game against us I doubt this. There may be some sort of "omg Villa Park" thing as a new ground for players but, outside that, we're just another team for others to beat. People are seriously overestimating this "big team" stuff. I live in Nottingham and have a load of Forest mates (probably one of the closest teams we'll face next season?) - literally none of them are fussed about playing Villa. They only care about Derby and arguing that Clough did a better job than Ranieri/Leicester this season. I just don't understand when we became like Liverpool fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: I doubt this. There may be some sort of "omg Villa Park" thing as a new ground for players but, outside that, we're just another team for others to beat. People are seriously overestimating this "big team" stuff. I live in Nottingham and have a load of Forest mates (probably one of the closest teams we'll face next season?) - literally none of them are fussed about playing Villa. They only care about Derby and arguing that Clough did a better job than Ranieri/Leicester this season. I just don't understand when we became like Liverpool fans. the opposition players are the ones I be more worried about they will see us as a team they can make a huge impact against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 4, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, bobzy said: I doubt this. There may be some sort of "omg Villa Park" thing as a new ground for players but, outside that, we're just another team for others to beat. People are seriously overestimating this "big team" stuff. I live in Nottingham and have a load of Forest mates (probably one of the closest teams we'll face next season?) - literally none of them are fussed about playing Villa. They only care about Derby and arguing that Clough did a better job than Ranieri/Leicester this season. I just don't understand when we became like Liverpool fans. I agree to a point, and to an extent it's almost a self-fulfilling fantasy - Fans of X club go on about how their club is "big club, blah blah" and then it just makes fans of other clubs want to beat them more, for being a bunch of arrogant dingbats. It's true, too I think that people will want to go to VP, or play there (as they would for other similar venues). I think it affects supporters more than players, perhaps. Players just want 3 points and a win bonus for any game. The last point though is that fans of some teams round here have kind of said "It's wierd having Villa in the Championship, you're a big club, should be in the Prem..." So some fans at least do think of Villa as a bit of a potential scalp - more so than (say) Brentford or Huddersfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: I doubt this. There may be some sort of "omg Villa Park" thing as a new ground for players but, outside that, we're just another team for others to beat. People are seriously overestimating this "big team" stuff. I live in Nottingham and have a load of Forest mates (probably one of the closest teams we'll face next season?) - literally none of them are fussed about playing Villa. They only care about Derby and arguing that Clough did a better job than Ranieri/Leicester this season. I just don't understand when we became like Liverpool fans. I think some others may see us as a big club or at least a nice ground, but I agree that will count for little. Once the whistle blows it won't matter a jot - every team will want to beat us badly just as we want to beat every other team badly. Early form will matter more. IF (by some miracle) we come out the blocks quickly and start playing well, dominating games, picking up wins and drawing bigger vocal crowds that will create a bit of a fear factor, but that has nothing to do with our name or status. The reason prem teams have traditionally feared going to the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal is they have good teams and they win far more than they lose. It will be the same in the championship. Play well and win and teams will start to fear us. Play like we have been playing and teams will see us as easy pickings and a nice scalp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaspg Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Zatman said: thats been the dream for 5 years and as always we fall short one day the dream of mediocrity will be back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 34 minutes ago, blandy said: I agree to a point, and to an extent it's almost a self-fulfilling fantasy - Fans of X club go on about how their club is "big club, blah blah" and then it just makes fans of other clubs want to beat them more, for being a bunch of arrogant dingbats. It's true, too I think that people will want to go to VP, or play there (as they would for other similar venues). I think it affects supporters more than players, perhaps. Players just want 3 points and a win bonus for any game. The last point though is that fans of some teams round here have kind of said "It's wierd having Villa in the Championship, you're a big club, should be in the Prem..." So some fans at least do think of Villa as a bit of a potential scalp - more so than (say) Brentford or Huddersfield. Oh, no doubt about that (last point). We haven't been in the second tier for a long time so fans will certainly find it weird that we're there. Certain established Premier League teams (West Brom, West Ham) and top Championship teams (Burnley, Hull, Cardiff) have yo-yo'd between the divisions - we simply haven't done that. It's new territory and gives other Championship fans a new ground to visit. I'd expect us to be challenging toward the top end of the table rather the likes of Huddersfield, for sure. I just can't think of any example whereby a "big club" has meant that other teams "try harder" against them and it ends up costing them? Even in our own recent history, we've had one of the longest winless runs against another team in our league - and that was against Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 4, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2016 1 hour ago, bobzy said: I just can't think of any example whereby a "big club" has meant that other teams "try harder" against them and it ends up costing them? It's a bit of an intangible - was it a factor with relegated clubs like Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Wed. Man City, Sunderland etc. that plummeted down, or were they (as we are) a total piggin' shambles that it'd have made no odds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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