LondonLax Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I know this is a personal observation and possibly not reflective of the whole situation, but since this cluster%#%#¤ of a situation got started my wife and I have had 3 close friends and their families leave to go back to Europe, and our daughter's "head office" has been moved to Frankfurt (she works in insurance). Our friends who moved are all Europeans married to Brits who felt that they could get better jobs in Germany, Switzerland and Austria respectively, while not being trampled on daily by our leading political parties in the UK. The feeling of being a bargaining chip in Maybot's\Jezza's masterplans simply isn't a nice thing to have floating over your head. I’ve got friends I used to hang out with in London who have left the UK as a result of Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, peterms said: Living in Vancouver, a lot of our food was imported from the US as we were so far cut off from the rest of Canada. Fruit and veg was brought up from California and meat was interchangeable across the border owing to the alignment in regulations. Some of the labelling was terrifying. Or at least the lack of it on the cheap stuff was. More premium products would be marketed as "antibiotic free", "hormone free", "non-GMO", so you new that anything NOT labelled as that would be full of whatever. We ended up shopping at stupid expensive places like Whole Foods and Choices just so we could be confident we weren't eating weird shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2019 GMO being lumped in with those bad things again. Nothing intrisically wrong with GMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, peterms said: Brexit certainly makes a lot more sense if you assume that this was the end-goal all along, but that Tories knew/know that this kind of deregulation would be tremendously unpopular if proposed 'upfront'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, mjmooney said: GMO being lumped in with those bad things again. Nothing intrisically wrong with GMO. It's more the stuff around it that's the issue. Making certain crops GMO so they're resistant to particular brands of pesticide and herbicide is fine until the chemicals, which are increasingly used because they can be, aren't washed off properly and then ingested. It's the same as there's nothing intrinsically wrong with chlorine-washed chicken. It's why there's a need to wash them in chlorine that is the issue. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 21, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 56 minutes ago, mjmooney said: GMO being lumped in with those bad things again. Nothing intrisically wrong with GMO. Rob's already done a reply, but there's a lot wrong with (some of) it. They might not poison us at the point of eating, but they can be catastrophic for insects, for the environment, for nature and for farmers. Dousing them with chemicals which then get into rivers or soil... or crops being toxic to bees as well as (say) weevils, or crops being sterile so the seeds can't form the start of next years crop, so farmers have to buy more seed from (say) Monsanto... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: it's the same as there's nothing intrinsically wrong with chlorine-washed chicken. It's why there's a need to wash them in chlorine that is the issue. probably the same need that requires bagged salads and vegetables to be washed with it ..not to mention treat our tap water with it ...The inference whenever the Chlorinated chicken story comes up is always linked to EU standards , but the EU haven't actually said the process isn't safe as you point out thing is even if it was allowed , consumers presumably have a choice .. eat chicken that " could" give you a risk of Salmonella ( around 8000 people a year get it in the Uk , though not all from chicken ) at a premium or eat chicken from the USA that's been treated the same as your bag of "fresh" salad ... seeing the queues outside my local KFC and Nando's I don't think a lot of the UK care too much about the premium quality of their chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, blandy said: Rob's already done a reply, but there's a lot wrong with (some of) it. They might not poison us at the point of eating, but they can be catastrophic for insects, for the environment, for nature and for farmers. Dousing them with chemicals which then get into rivers or soil... or crops being toxic to bees as well as (say) weevils, or crops being sterile so the seeds can't form the start of next years crop, so farmers have to buy more seed from (say) Monsanto... I've also read about farmers who haven't bought seed from, say, Monsanto being sued for growing Monsanto GMO crops. It's happened out of their control through the natural process of pollination from neighbouring fields. Be interesting that if we go down that routes with farms here, will the same issues occur with pollination of crops in mainland Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: probably the same need that requires bagged salads and vegetables to be washed with it ..not to mention treat our tap water with it ...The inference whenever the Chlorinated chicken story comes up is always linked to EU standards , but the EU haven't actually said the process isn't safe as you point out thing is even if it was allowed , consumers presumably have a choice .. eat chicken that " could" give you a risk of Salmonella ( around 8000 people a year get it in the Uk , though not all from chicken ) at a premium or eat chicken from the USA that's been treated the same as your bag of "fresh" salad ... seeing the queues outside my local KFC and Nando's I don't think a lot of the UK care too much about the premium quality of their chicken 2 You're not kidding. Lost of people will eat any crap if it's advertised the right way. I can imagine our own poultry farmers not being too happy at US bleachicken being imported for £3.50 a ton or whatever it's going to cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: probably the same need that requires bagged salads and vegetables to be washed with it ..not to mention treat our tap water with it ...The inference whenever the Chlorinated chicken story comes up is always linked to EU standards , but the EU haven't actually said the process isn't safe as you point out thing is even if it was allowed , consumers presumably have a choice .. eat chicken that " could" give you a risk of Salmonella ( around 8000 people a year get it in the Uk , though not all from chicken ) at a premium or eat chicken from the USA that's been treated the same as your bag of "fresh" salad ... seeing the queues outside my local KFC and Nando's I don't think a lot of the UK care too much about the premium quality of their chicken You're probably correct. But what is the consequence of that? Last year the UK exported around £200m of fresh and frozen poultry meat, most of it to Europe. If we say "we're happy to allow this and let the consumer choose", those exports stop. If there is a risk of substandard (by European terms) product coming in and no regulatory control over it then it just won't go over. So UK poultry farmers now have the twin impact of added competition on price domestically, and their largest export market closed to them overnight. So apart from a few organic producers selling to corn-fed birds to farm shops, who is buying millions of pounds worth of British poultry now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted January 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2019 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said: It's more the stuff around it that's the issue. Making certain crops GMO so they're resistant to particular brands of pesticide and herbicide is fine until the chemicals, which are increasingly used because they can be, aren't washed off properly and then ingested. It's the same as there's nothing intrinsically wrong with chlorine-washed chicken. It's why there's a need to wash them in chlorine that is the issue. This is exactly right. Chlorine washing makes no difference to the finished product in itself, it just allows all sorts of abuses and sloppiness further up the production line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 yep, every water pipe in every building in this country has to be washed with chlorine by law my issue with it is the belief that food here will get cheaper, im waiting for the suggestion that this has to be introduced just to keep prices around where they are now, if value for money increased then i honestly wouldn't care but it wont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I like this, but mainly because having “IRELAND” written across the map in big letters helped me realise what country it was and so I could understand the joke. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, ml1dch said: You're probably correct. But what is the consequence of that? Last year the UK exported around £200m of fresh and frozen poultry meat, most of it to Europe. If we say "we're happy to allow this and let the consumer choose", those exports stop. If there is a risk of substandard (by European terms) product coming in and no regulatory control over it then it just won't go over. So UK poultry farmers now have the twin impact of added competition on price domestically, and their largest export market closed to them overnight. So apart from a few organic producers selling to corn-fed birds to farm shops, who is buying millions of pounds worth of British poultry now? Uk chicken exports were already down 40% in 2017 .. again like Jaguar (and other examples) , it's not mutually exclusive to Brexit , though for sure it will be / is a factor short term , growth in market share by countries like Saudi Arabia don't help ( they exported more chicken than we did in 2017 !!) Brazil seem to be the words biggest meat exporter if you factor in frozen meat ..the EU temporarily banned some chicken imports from there due to safety concerns (Salmonella ) ... turned out 6 consignments of chicken were contaminated .. interestedly in the same period 27 Polish chicken consignments were contaminated .... makes you wonder if EU safety concerns are really safety concerns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Tusk on Cameron Quote Donald Tusk, the European council president, has claimed that David Cameron told him he thought he would never have to hold the referendum he promised because the Lib Dems would block it. In an interview for a BBC documentary, ‘Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil’, the first episode of which goes out a week today, Tusk said: I asked David Cameron, ‘Why did you decide on this referendum, this – it’s so dangerous, so even stupid, you know,’ and, he told me - and I was really amazed and even shocked - that the only reason was his own party, [He told me] he felt really safe, because he thought at the same time that there’s no risk of a referendum, because, his coalition partner, the Liberals, would block this idea of a referendum. But then, surprisingly, he won and there was no coalition partner. So paradoxically David Cameron became the real victim of his own victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, peterms said: Tusk on Cameron You knew it would be because he felt it was absolutely improbable, but it just shows yet again the sheer incompetence of government. They even get their bankers (in this case, favorable odds) wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2019 26% of the people who took part in Sky's poll really think a No Deal Brexit means we stay in the EU 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, mjmooney said: GMO being lumped in with those bad things again. Nothing intrisically wrong with GMO. Except for how it's used to ensure or at a minimum attempt to produce corporate control of global food supplies. Neo-liberal wet dreams... and a couple of other points. Glyphosate is now all over the environment and is a known carcinogen. Monsanto no longer exits, it's part of the wonderful Bayer mess now. Yay corporate rebranding, and don't forget to take your daily aspirin! Edited January 21, 2019 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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