Chindie Posted February 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: But it is such a beautifully accurate phrase to describe virtuous opinions not guaranteed to be followed by virtuous actions. Bingo. It is a favourite of the 'alt right' after all. I think it rather more suggests that virtuous opinions are insincere posing. Like most things 'alt right', it is worthy of absolute disdain. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 15 hours ago, Ingram85 said: Providing the next few years work out as I hope then I could be joining you Stefan in Poland. 42 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Polish missus? Either that or he's joined the Wehrmacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 6 hours ago, ml1dch said: Do you want to quickly explain how Merkel has the authority to decide say, Portuguese or Belgian immigration policy towards citizens of a non-EU country, any more than she can decide how those countries treat a Chinese or Indian national? It's been widely reported that Merkel was the EU leader who refused to reciprocally guarantee the rights of UK citizens in the EU in exchange for EU citizens in the UK in advance of the main negotiations. When British MPs elected to serve the interests of their citizens choose to prioritize the interests of foreign nationals over the interests of their own in the EU then 'virtue signaling' is a relatively polite term to use about them. Moral grandstanding is equally valid, either way they are forgetting who and what their primary duty is to. Labelling that 'alt-right' is standard left wing bullshit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2017 It's a perfectly valid and accurate description of that phrase given it's almost exclusive users who actually popularised it as a phrase. I'm not left wing either. Hence why left posters disagree with me as much as right, and some left comments here recently have struck me as outright silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, Awol said: It's been widely reported that Merkel was the EU leader who refused to reciprocally guarantee the rights of UK citizens in the EU in exchange for EU citizens in the UK in advance of the main negotiations. You've ignored my point. Or not understood it. One person can't make that guarantee as there is no common EU policy regarding immigration of non-EU citizens. Merkel could easily turn round and say "anybody from the UK currently in Germany is fine", but she has no say over how any other EU country should behave towards a post-EU UK national. Just like she wouldn't be able to dictate to the Dutch government how to treat an Australian immigrant or the Polish government to treat a Chilean immigrant. Once their EU citizenship ceases they will be subject to the immigration policies of the countries in which they reside. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 39 minutes ago, ml1dch said: You've ignored my point. Or not understood it. One person can't make that guarantee as there is no common EU policy regarding immigration of non-EU citizens. Merkel could easily turn round and say "anybody from the UK currently in Germany is fine", but she has no say over how any other EU country should behave towards a post-EU UK national. Just like she wouldn't be able to dictate to the Dutch government how to treat an Australian immigrant or the Polish government to treat a Chilean immigrant. Once their EU citizenship ceases they will be subject to the immigration policies of the countries in which they reside. No she couldn't dictate what others do but by ruling it out she made their views irrelevant and killed the UK proposal stone dead. From the reports I read other EU countries were in favour, I haven't seen reports that other EU countries were opposed. Ergo, Merkel decided to politicize an issue the U.K. was trying to depoliticize and prevented an early deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Awol said: From the reports I read other EU countries were in favour Merkel isn't the EU. Each country is allowed to make their own non-EU immigration policy. 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Ergo, Merkel decided to politicize an issue the U.K. was trying to depoliticize and prevented an early deal. Didn't Merkel just say she wasn't willing to discuss it yet? As we haven't triggered article 50? I think you're angry at something that isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Quote EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms Exclusive: Guy Verhofstadt has fast-tracked the plan and will include it in his mandate[/quote] Perhaps we should have "signaled" our malevolence? Do remember that this is the European Parliament saying this. Yes, the democratically elected wing of the EU, something the Council (Merkel, and all the other heads of state) have no control over. Just a quick reminder what the British reaction was: Quote Jayne Adye, director of the Get Britain Out campaign described the proposal as divisive and said it was “totally unacceptable” for British people to retain the advantages of EU membership. “This is an outrage. The EU is now attempting to divide the great British public at the exact moment we need unity. 17.4 million people voted to Leave the EU on 23 June and as a result the UK as a whole will get Brexit,” she said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 From the BBC, "Brexit: Good Friday bill fails" -- the Parliament has rejected an amendment requiring the government to make sure Brexit is done in concordance with its commitments to Northern Ireland. Ye're backing off from the deal that brought peace to the north, despite the people of Northern Ireland voting convincingly to Remain. This is not going to end well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2017 17 hours ago, Ingram85 said: Providing the next few years work out as I hope then I could be joining you Stefan in Poland. If you can get a visa! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 It'll be Corbyn's fault. Or Merkel's. Chances our PM and co will take any responsibility when things go wrong will be nil. Deflect, kick bucket, deflect again. I hope it's taken as read that would probably apply to most of our recent govt coaltion and labour before then included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I do not understand why that loathsome prat Ayde is opposed to the opt in proposal. Something that would ensure both sides could be happy is viewed as divisive but demanding the imposition of a particular form of brexit would be unifying. word removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Awol said: When British MPs elected to serve the interests of their citizens choose to prioritize the interests of foreign nationals over the interests of their own in the EU then 'virtue signaling' is a relatively polite term to use about them. Moral grandstanding is equally valid, either way they are forgetting who and what their primary duty is to. You're drawing a completely false case there, AWOL. the MPs are elected to serve the interests of their CONSTITUENTS, which inlcudes constituents born elsewhere in the EU but now legally resident in the UK (and in most cases paying taxes and contributing to local life etc.). You're just wrong about their primary duty. Crap, crap argument. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, Enda said: From the BBC, "Brexit: Good Friday bill fails" -- the Parliament has rejected an amendment requiring the government to make sure Brexit is done in concordance with its commitments to Northern Ireland. Ye're backing off from the deal that brought peace to the north, despite the people of Northern Ireland voting convincingly to Remain. This is not going to end well. ...Do these idiots not remember the troubles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: ...Do these idiots not remember the troubles? Less they don't remember, more don't give a flying ****. The Brexit bill couldn't have any amendment that questioned it, lest the whole house of cards come tumbling down. Even the ones that were just no brainers. Ireland and the border is just going to be a horror show again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, Enda said: Just a quick reminder what the British reaction was: remind me what role Jayne Adye is playing in the policy making of the UK government ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: ...Do these idiots not remember the troubles? It's also inevitable, given the understandable/stubborn nature of humans, that if something very bad happens again (bombs in pubs and the like), the response will be just another lurch to the right. Not one person will stand up and say "Well, to be fair, we could have predicted this would happen if we ignored the troublesome nature of the Northern Irish border". No, the dialogue will be about the need for security and tightening the borders even further... which will make the situation even more unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: remind me what role Jayne Adye is playing in the policy making of the UK government ? She was one of the leading campaigners in a referendum that copper-fastened the government's agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 18 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: remind me what role Jayne Adye is playing in the policy making of the UK government ? Nigel Farage has no role in the policy making of the UK government. He's still managed to help **** everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, Enda said: She was one of the leading campaigners in a referendum that copper-fastened the government's agenda. so none then I think in the context of you quoting the lead Brexit negotiator the very least you could do for a counter would be to quote someone actually in government ... might just as well have said "here is the view of my mate Dave down the pub " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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