The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[darrenm]

[StefanAVFC]

"The people"

Urgh

Also that Sun headline. Are they implying that Gina Miller is a foreign elite? Yes, she was born elsewhere but spent most of her life here and is married to an Englishman. Dangerous rhetoric there.

And is a Spanish hairdresser really an example of 'foreign elite'?

Edited November 4, 2016 by StefanAVFC

[blandy]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

is a Spanish hairdresser really an example of 'foreign elite'?

No, that would be an Australian-American Billionaire, wouldn't it?  - A member of an unelected foreign elite telling us what to do!

[Chindie]

The front pages today are a damning commentary on this country.

The rhetoric is poisonous and it has an audience larger than we'd like to think.

[LondonLax]

If you have the Express, the Sun and the Mail frothing at the mouth you must be doing something right!

[Ingram85]

The country is **** isn't it. Urgh. Running it all are either scheming elitist evil toffs or right wing nut jobs or a mix of the two I suppose. Then you the have shady foreign businessmen and the worlds financial elite who want to stay where they are pulling the strings anyway.

Where do non racist normal people fit in anymore? Outer Hebrides?

[tonyh29]

3 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Where do non racist normal people fit in anymore? Outer Hebrides?

funnily enough  , they want independence and a petition even went to the Scots parliament  a few years back   .....  which by VT logic makes them xenophobic racist little Hebridean's 

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

little Hebridean's

I bet they're all "outers" , though no doubt there will be some "inners" too?

[mockingbird_franklin]

Tory Mp who was in the leave camp resigns over irreconcilable differences over how the Government are going about Brexit, rather embarrassing isn't it?

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-11-04/conservative-mp-stephen-phillips-resigns/

Tory MP Stephen Phillips resigns over 'irreconcilable' differences with Government

Conservative MP Stephen Phillips has resigned because of "irreconcilable policy differences with the current Government".

Mr Phillips campaigned for Leave in the EU referendum, but ITV News Political Correspondent Paul Brand said the MP was "exasperated" that the Government is pushing for a "hard Brexit".

The Sleaford and North Hykeham MP said in a statement: "It has become clear to me over the last few months that my growing and very significant policy differences with the current Government mean that I am unable properly to represent the people who elected me.

“This decision has been a difficult one and I hope that everyone will respect the fact that I have tried to act in the best interests of all of my constituents.”

Mr Phillips has repeatedly called for Theresa May to reveal her Brexit plan to Parliament before beginning the formal process of leaving the European Union.

His resignation comes after the High Court ruled that the prime minister must get parliamentary approval before triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to begin the formal process of leaving the EU, a decision against which the Government is appealing.

Mr Phillips has previously warned against the "tyranny" of denying MPs a vote on the Government's stance in forthcoming Brexit negotiations.

Last month he called for an urgent debate in the House of Commons on the matter, insisting that bypassing Parliament was "simply not an acceptable way for the executive to proceed".

He told Speaker John Bercow in a letter: "I and many others did not exercise our vote in the referendum so as to restore the sovereignty of this Parliament only to see what we regarded as the tyranny of the European Union replaced by that of a Government that apparently wishes to ignore the views of the House on the most important issue facing the nation."

Mr Phillips is the second Conservative MPs to resign in 10 days following the departure of Zac Goldsmith, who quit in protest at the expansion of Heathrow airport.

 

[Ingram85]

25 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

funnily enough  , they want independence and a petition even went to the Scots parliament  a few years back   .....  which by VT logic makes them xenophobic racist little Hebridean's 

The bar stewards. I'll have to find an uninhabited one then. 

[Rodders]

those newspaper headlines are so depressing. It feels like a particularly aggressive way of dividing up the country america style, I know there's already strong partisanship already, but I just get the feeling the atmosphere is being fed by those grotesque pollutant's of ignorance and hate so greatly that we're one lit fuse from it descending into something more physical, beyond the idiots screaming nonsense on QT or wherever it maybe - what comes next? The dystopias of brasseye, the day today, black mirror etc all seem very close to home now. When a people are riled up to a level of incoherent anger that is immune to any countering argument... how do you calm the hysteria? 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Rodders

[choffer]

9 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

I'll have to find an uninhabited one then. 

Here.

[blandy]

18 minutes ago, mockingbird_franklin said:

Tory MP Stephen Phillips resigns over 'irreconcilable' differences with Government

That Tory political man wrote something really good on the interwebs a month or so ago.

Quote

.... I exercised my own vote in favour of leave. I hated the campaign that leave ran. I disliked most of the people who ran it. What they said was divisive, xenophobic and untrue. But I persuaded myself that the sovereignty of the parliament in which I sat was more important than the tactics of a bunch of people I declined to have anything to do with. And then we got the result that we did.

What no one who put their cross in the leave box voted for, however, was the form that Brexit should take. It wasn’t on the ballot paper and no one knew, if that were to be the result, how matters would play out.

Frankly, I didn’t think leave stood much of a chance. But I also thought that if there were a vote to leave the EU, the outward-looking, internationalist face of modern multicultural Britain would win through: that although we would leave the EU, we would remain in the single market to which the manifesto of every major political party at the last election committed us – a market on which our prosperity as a nation, and our ability to raise the taxes to pay for public services, is founded.

Hard Brexit, with all the damage it will do, has seemingly become the received wisdom
That, of course, was before the lurch to the right made possible by the absence of any centrist opposition to this government. And the latest feature of the current direction of travel is the government’s desire not to seek the view of the House of Commons as to where its Brexit negotiations should end up. Hard Brexit, with all the damage it will do, has seemingly become the received wisdom, without any mandate at all from the British people, and seemingly without any challenge – at least until this week.

There is a supreme irony in all of this: a government principally led by remainers taking the result of the referendum as carte blanche not only to take Britain out of the EU, but to do so on whatever terms they like without reference to those elected to represent the views of the British people......it has no mandate at all for what it should look like.

The campaign to give parliament the right to determine our future relationship with the EU is not about reversing the referendum result. Nor is it about subverting the will of the British people, or having a second bite of the cherry. It’s about the sovereignty that I and others cherish, a sovereignty that resides principally in the House of Commons and in its ability, when given the opportunity, to inform and direct the government of the day.

Not giving parliament the chance, before article 50 is invoked, to say where it thinks these negotiations should end up is, at its core, undemocratic, unconstitutional and likely to exacerbate the divisions in our society to which the referendum gave rise. It also ignores the views of nearly half the people who voted in the referendum, who were perfectly content with our place in the EU.

Ignoring them, even though they were (just) in the minority, is not merely divisive but plain wrong.

The government says, of course, that it can’t give a running commentary on its negotiations with the EU and the governments of its member states. Nobody is asking for that. We are asking for MPs to have the right to have a say in directing a government with no mandate as to the form that Brexit should take. That’s it.

But even if we were asking more than that, as soon as the British government starts negotiating, not only will its position immediately leak but it will be discussed, at length, in the 27 parliaments of every other EU member. Though not ours, apparently.

 

... the majority of British people want their own parliament to make the rules by which they are governed. They don’t want tyranny from their own government any more than they want it from the EU.

 

[TrentVilla]

 

Why do people keep calling them newspapers?

[StefanAVFC]

5 hours ago, Chindie said:

The front pages today are a damning commentary on this country.

The rhetoric is poisonous and it has an audience larger than we'd like to think.

Surely labeling the judges as "enemies of the people" with their faces is inciting hate speech.

its maddening how they away with it and also with not presenting the facts. We don't stand a chance while people read and believe their vile nonsense.

[meregreen]

The Royal Prerogative, by which, the executive can circumvent Parliament,has to be the most undemocratic tool in our Government.Used by all Parties at various times, it is something that should have been consigned to the bin years ago.

[MakemineVanilla]

4 minutes ago, meregreen said:

The Royal Prerogative, by which, the executive can circumvent Parliament,has to be the most undemocratic tool in our Government.Used by all Parties at various times, it is something that should have been consigned to the bin years ago.

Along with the 91 hereditary peers in the H of L. 

[Enda]

5 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Along with the 91 hereditary peers in the H of L. 

Lads, your head of state is an unelected theocrat.

[HanoiVillan]

13 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Along with the H of L. 

Fixed 

[villakram]

Don't you worry, after seeing what the people can do if given an opportunity, they'll make sure to never allow it happen again.