Callum O'Hare

[peterw]

Just now, Junxs said:

Albrighton? Traore? depending on how far back you are going.. Cahill? Sturridge?

There were plenty that could have done a job in the championship too, Callum Robinson, Jordan Graham looked really good at Wolves until the horrific injury. Jonathon Hogg helped Huddersfield get promoted and stayed in the team the following year in the prem, could have saved money spent on Jedinak and Whelan. Ciaran Clark promoted with Newcastle, likewise Joe Bennett with Cardiff. 

Albrighton was already an established first-teamer, and Traore (also a first-team player) wanted to go so not comparable to a youth-player not in the first-team squad. Clark also. A for your Hogg's and Bennett's (again, Bennett was bought and in the first-team, just deemed not good enough) where are they now? As I said, there always players who can find a club that will find a role for them, none of the clubs/players you have mentioned have hardly showed up our youth coaching and policy though.

[peterw]

1 minute ago, The_Steve said:

Just another product of mismanaging youth, loan him out years earlier and if he's not developing, cut him. He's 22 and barely played any football until his loan with Coventry, I do feel bad for him. A clean break is good.

22 and just touched the fringes at Villa. Not deemed good enough so let go. if he was 19 or 20 we'd keep, but we have plenty a few years younger that are at the same level or progressing better by all accounts. Under Lerner/O'Neill the academy were criticised for stockpiling youth/reserves just to win things rather than helping them progress into the first-team. I see nothing wrong with the current philosophy of giving them targets of when they should have reached our first team squad regularly before they are cut.

[Junxs]

1 minute ago, peterw said:

Albrighton was already an established first-teamer, and Traore (also a first-team player) wanted to go so not comparable to a youth-player not in the first-team squad. Clark also. A for your Hogg's and Bennett's (again, Bennett was bought and in the first-team, just deemed not good enough) where are they now? As I said, there always players who can find a club that will find a role for them, none of the clubs/players you have mentioned have hardly showed up our youth coaching and policy though.

I was replying the the bit in bold where you said you couldnt think of one, still not sure I agree with your view of when a youth player is no longer a youth player. We let Albrighton and Traore go before they were established first team players but you disagree on that either way Albrighton still came through our academy. I think if you look at the top 2 divisions and see how many came through the academy from Villa there's a decent amount.

[The_Steve]

Albrighton, it was claimed wanted £35kpw which is a lot under the Lerner slash model, until he revealed years later that he would have stuck around. I just feel like the mismanagement stuttered any long-term thinking, as the only model was slash and reduce costs.

Troare signed on a 5-year-deal but it didn't work out and he wanted to leave, work with Karanka at 'Boro.

Under the current ownership model there's a better shift and idea about utilising youth. Perhaps Smith has never rated O'Hare, but at this point he was already in his twenties.

[peterw]

4 minutes ago, Junxs said:

I was replying the the bit in bold where you said you couldnt think of one, still not sure I agree with your view of when a youth player is no longer a youth player. We let Albrighton and Traore go before they were established first team players but you disagree on that either way Albrighton still came through our academy. I think if you look at the top 2 divisions and see how many came through the academy from Villa there's a decent amount.

Well on a thread about a youth player that can't break through to the first-team and is being cut; and I would have thought my view of what is and isn't a youth player is pretty universal. Otherwise all players are just youth players that are now in first teams. Albrighton was in the first-team squad every week and played regularly, Traore was bought.

I think you misunderstand my point, its not about academy players coming through, but those that we have cut that have come back to bite us on the ar*e for having done so, by making it big elsewhere. That we have cut players who are mostly plying their trade in the Championship and below demonstrates my point. How many would you want back?

[sne]

Would Daniel Johnson count?

Not that he's exactly have come back to bite us.

[peterw]

then no.

[sne]

Just now, peterw said:

then no.

Never heard of him. 

[mikeyp102]

11 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Albrighton, it was claimed wanted £35kpw which is a lot under the Lerner slash model, until he revealed years later that he would have stuck around. I just feel like the mismanagement stuttered any long-term thinking, as the only model was slash and reduce costs.

 

Albrighton himself in recent interviews (one of the Villa podcasts, I think the Birmingham Mail one) has said he wasn’t offered anything. Lambert kept on telling him he would get an offer (he loves Villa and says he would’ve took anything offered) but then it never materialised

[rodders0223]

1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said:

Albrighton himself in recent interviews (one of the Villa podcasts, I think the Birmingham Mail one) has said he wasn’t offered anything. Lambert kept on telling him he would get an offer (he loves Villa and says he would’ve took anything offered) but then it never materialised

And that he would have accepted a pay as play deal he was that desperate to stay

[The_Steve]

Lambert is as guilty as Lerner for allowing the likes of Albrighton to leave. It should have not been allowed to happen.

[Villan4Life]

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/christian-purslows-brutal-comment-spelled-18477250

 

Quote

Callum O'Hare's Aston Villa career is set to end in a matter of days, after it was revealed he would not be offered a new contract.

The 22-year-old will officially become a free-agent on July 1, as his 16-year stay with his boyhood club comes to an end.

O'Hare spent last season on loan with Coventry City, helping them to League One promotion and it is understood they are keen to bring him back - with the Championship outfit able to negotiate freely from today (June 24).

It's a decision that has split the Villa fanbase, with many believing he had a part to play under Dean Smith, particularly if they are relegated at the end of the season.

Highly-rated at Bodymoor Heath, O'Hare was a regular within Smith's first-team training sessions during pre-season last summer, but crucially wasn't involved when the real stuff started in August.

At 22, O'Hare needs regular football to continue his progression. And it was chief executive Christian Purslow's comments back in February that suggested his future at Villa could look bleak.

Purslow hinted that if players were reaching their early 20s and were not in the first-team, then the academy system was failing.

“The under-23 team sits under the academy and you made an interesting observation about seeing 16 and 17-year-olds in the U23 team, now that is the acid test of the programme," he said.

“Frankly, I’m going to be brutal, 22-year-olds playing in an under-23 team means your system isn’t working. It means your system has failed because 22-year-old footballers at Aston Villa need to be in the first team. 

“The ultimate goal is to populate the under-23 team with 11 outstanding 16, 17 and 18-year-olds, then I will know it’s working. And that will take years, not months. We need to be higher in recruiting the best eight-year-old, nine-year-old, 10-year-old, 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 14, 16, one a year that makes it and gets a professional contract at 16.

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Villan4Life

[AV82]

Strange, surely we could loan him out again next season and at the very least turn a profit?

[lexicon]

Don't think he wants another year in limbo tbf. 

IMO he's not good enough yet, so this is the best thing for everyone. 

[Junxs]

4 hours ago, peterw said:

Well on a thread about a youth player that can't break through to the first-team and is being cut; and I would have thought my view of what is and isn't a youth player is pretty universal. Otherwise all players are just youth players that are now in first teams. Albrighton was in the first-team squad every week and played regularly, Traore was bought.

I think you misunderstand my point, its not about academy players coming through, but those that we have cut that have come back to bite us on the ar*e for having done so, by making it big elsewhere. That we have cut players who are mostly plying their trade in the Championship and below demonstrates my point. How many would you want back?

I've already mentioned the players who I thought were good enough when we got relegated, but you're not accepting them. You really need to specify what you class as a youth player, seems as soon as they've played for the first team they no longer qualify as youth players in your book? 

I know we bought Traore, but he was a teenager when we bought him and made his full professional debut whilst here, you could argue 90% of youth players are brought in from somewhere, do you class Barry as a youth player for us? (both of them). Gary Cahill was brought in from AFC Dronfield, does he count as "our" youth player?

Edited June 24, 2020 by Junxs

[useless]

O'Hare has been let go for a reason, just because we've had a few youth products that have done well at midtable championship level doesn't mean to say that we have to hang on to every academy player that we produce just in case they happen to come good, for every Robinson or Daniel Johnson there will be scores of our former youth players playing in the lower leagues or non-league football.

I think it's a good sign that we've let him go, as it shows that we want much better than he can offer even if we go down.

[Sulberto21]

For every Steven Gerrard there's 30 Dominic Matteo's. Some clubs get extremely fortunate when a whole group comes through like the class of 92 Barca Ajax etc but majority of the time an academy is there to provide an education for the best street kids so they can have a career in football.  Some play in the Premier league regularly and most filter down to the lowers leagues and others are having to find work. 

Every academy is of course searching for the one Messi Ronaldo that will come through and adorn their pitches. 

Dan Crowley going to be better than Jack Grealish, what's he doing these days ? He actually has more natural talent than Jack  however Jack has got the desire and mentality to succeed.

Callum good luck in your career.

[peterw]

18 hours ago, Junxs said:

I've already mentioned the players who I thought were good enough when we got relegated, but you're not accepting them. You really need to specify what you class as a youth player, seems as soon as they've played for the first team they no longer qualify as youth players in your book? 

I know we bought Traore, but he was a teenager when we bought him and made his full professional debut whilst here, you could argue 90% of youth players are brought in from somewhere, do you class Barry as a youth player for us? (both of them). Gary Cahill was brought in from AFC Dronfield, does he count as "our" youth player?

 

Not sure how else to explain it to you. A youth player that we let go. Not sold on, not that was in and around the first team, just let go. Released. Didn't want anymore. Didn't think would make it as a first team player with us. I've said it 3 times now.

 

 

[Junxs]

6 hours ago, peterw said:

 

Not sure how else to explain it to you. A youth player that we let go. Not sold on, not that was in and around the first team, just let go. Released. Didn't want anymore. Didn't think would make it as a first team player with us. I've said it 3 times now.

 

 

Well that would have been a good start how you've just said it, as I've gone back and read your previous 3 posts and its the first time you said "released". Previously you said "let go" and didn't mention on a free transfer. Like I said before you have set your own rules on a youth player by specifying you're not counting them as youth players once they are in and around the first team squad and claiming it as "universal".. so how was I supposed to know what your criteria is?

In my book Albrighton still counts as a youth player who we released on a free transfer.

But ok, I'll play by your rules.. and go back to a player I mentioned before in Callum Robinson who was released the same summer we were relegated so you can't use the argument we were a premier league side.

I also rate Daniel Johnson higher than some of the dross that played for us during the 3 years in the championship. But your rules might now allow that as I can't remember if we received a fee or if he was released on a free transfer.

[rodders0223]

Missed opportunity. Damn shame for all involved