romavillan Posted December 28, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 minutes ago, R.Bear said: I cannot believe people are defending him. Embarrassing. I can't believe he is getting so much stick. Embarrassing. Surely it's pretty easy to understand he tried to pick a combination on the left that didn't add up to a gaping hole with a welcome matt for whomever wanted to walk into our box. He's not picked Richardson because he's the next C. Ronaldo has he, it was a move to *try* and be more solid down that side, and to be fair it was working until Clark gifted the ball and then Westwood froze and allowed the cross. I like him, I think his approach to attempting to get us out of the shit is the only sensible one, be more solid, keep the ball better, get some points and start to get some confidence. All of you saying we should just go balls out attacking might not be saying that after some 5 or 6 goal beatings. Training would have to become therapy at that point for some of this lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Ultimately the loss of Benteke has been too much, too much for Sherwood so early in his managerial career and too much for us long term. If we still had Benteke we wouldn't be bottom that's for sure. The logical thing when you sell a big talent is to spend that money on improving other areas of the team. Well it didn't improve Liverpool or Spurs so not quite sure why people thought we'd magically fly up from 17th. Fudging the Benteke replacement wouldn't have been so bad if we had midfield players who could score but we don't so if Ayew dosen't score no one else can. That's the crux of it for me, I'd love to know the full story of what happened once Adebayor did his disappearing act. There were still 4 weeks left in the window. That's the main reason we're going down. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We're not good enough to play defensively as we're one mess up away from a goal, and we haven't the pace on the pitch to hit a team on the break. I don't think it's unreasonable to at least try and play with more attacking players on the park and push the oppositions full backs back (although I accept horses for courses when playing opposition of a higher calibre). The last three games were the time to do it and we've fluffed it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Benteke, Delph, Cleverley and Vlaar really and poor recruitment were too much for Sherwood. Yes some of the players we have signed have shown improvement with game time under Garde. Well two really Veretout and Ayew. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think he'll do well, just need that first win. I actually think we'll go on a decent run before the season ends, although might be a bit late to save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 8 minutes ago, romavillan said: I can't believe he is getting so much stick. Embarrassing. Surely it's pretty easy to understand he tried to pick a combination on the left that didn't add up to a gaping hole with a welcome matt for whomever wanted to walk into our box. He's not picked Richardson because he's the next C. Ronaldo has he, it was a move to *try* and be more solid down that side, and to be fair it was working until Clark gifted the ball and then Westwood froze and allowed the cross. I like him, I think his approach to attempting to get us out of the shit is the only sensible one, be more solid, keep the ball better, get some points and start to get some confidence. All of you saying we should just go balls out attacking might not be saying that after some 5 or 6 goal beatings. Training would have to become therapy at that point for some of this lot. You realise you're defending the decision to play Richardson as an attacking player in a game we lost 2-0. You know that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 We need to use Gil and Grealish and Traore more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) 47 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Tim wasn't improving though. We were getting worse and worse. That is simply not accurate. We did improve for a short period and it was noticeable enough to take us to a FA Cup Final and stave off relegation when it looked odds on we would go......so lets not sweep that conveniently under the carpet. We then had a poor reversal at home to Burnley and got severeley undone at Southampton....leading up to a lilly livered display at Wembley. We then lost 4 big players for us after finishing 17th The Summer signings did nothing but give us hope, nothing more nothing less the positive machine went in to overdrive and we all jumped on it, thinking everyone else knew more than we did.....so we wasn't in a position to moan, because we was none the wiser. There was so much riding on this being right. I have to confess, I did not know at this point how dubious the involvement the manager had in the signings and still don't really.....so not sure if it would have made any difference. It was then clear, most these players were not ready at best and at worst not good enough ( some are decent users of the ball, but do they have the physicality for this demanding) league) For me, when we was 0-2 at Leicester, conceding TH had a brainstorm, looking back ( from that point)he had improved the team IMO, with some concerning setbacks,granted. Since that moment irrespective of the manager in charge......Its been a nightmare on Elm St. This man has a big rebuilding job, is he the right man, I don't know, but I tell you this. when he is responsible for his own signings and they come in......I will then know. Ps As you may glean from this I put big store in to the recruitment of players when appraising a managers worth.....It makes his job half as difficult when he has the right ones. Edited December 28, 2015 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I cannot believe people are defending him. Embarrassing. Damn those Aston villa fans supporting the Aston villa manager. Embarrassing. I don't really see it as my duty as a fan to support a manager if he is no good. I support the club and the team and if the manager and players are doing well for the club and team then I support them to. But if the manager is failing and the players are not trying enough, I don't support them. There's not a lot to support amongst the personnel running and playing for the club at present. The only mitigating factor for Garde is that he was the wrong appointment and it's not really his fault he is failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 If Garde had have been here at the start of the season we wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 10 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Which of our last three managers would you say has done the best? The Best ? That's like asking who is the nicer serial killer ! But I would say this, Lambert was given a long, long time by modern standards ( not least by the fans, in my case I stuck with him until the end of season two, then gave him a bit more after the start to season three), he inherited a better side than the next two, he had Benteke, he had what four, five, six windows, two full preseason, and by the end - after barely staying alive, breaking, at the time, all sorts of unwanted records, and playing, regularly, the worst football I can recall, utterly surrendered at Hull making it a matter of when, not if, wed drop. Sherwood, without time, with One window, no Benteke, worse squad, did, for a bit, get us playing a bit of good football, he kept us up, and we got to the Final. I can't see how, given the differences in circumstances, he can properly be compared to Lambert. My feeling is he would have got more out of the players Lambert had than Lambert did. As for Garde, he may be rubbish, he may not, he may be totally wrong for us, now, but in my view it is simply nonsensical to judge him as a Manager in the time he's had and the circumstances he's inherited. But if I have to pick one, I'd say Garde is, so far, the least awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Nobody can predict that Useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arj Guy Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) 1 minute ago, useless said: If Garde had have been here at the start of the season we wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now. I think we would and there has been very little to suggest otherwise. We would definitely be in the relegation zone Edited December 28, 2015 by Arj Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 minute ago, useless said: If Garde had have been here at the start of the season we wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now. What makes you think this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Sherwood being to blame for our current predicament is what makes me think it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Probably the best we had in recent times was Houllier and believe me I was no fan of him as I believed him well past his sell by date when he turned up. The crowd reaction to him was also very harsh compared to the managers who turned up after him (even McLeish got more patience) as he followed MON so expectations were still sky high. At least there was some joined up thinking from the board there, someone who could implement a more possession based game, continental recruitment etc, just the wrong man to do it. And then the blew it by appointing McLeish and since that day we've ceased to be a premier league force and very shortly will be a premier league team no longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Just now, terrytini said: The Best ? That's like asking who is the nicer serial killer ! But I would say this, Lambert was given a long, long time by modern standards ( not least by the fans, in my case I stuck with him until the end of season two, then gave him a bit more after the start to season three), he inherited a better side than the next two, he had Benteke, he had what four, five, six windows, two full preseason, and by the end - after barely staying alive, breaking, at the time, all sorts of unwanted records, and playing, regularly, the worst football I can recall, utterly surrendered at Hull making it a matter of when, not if, wed drop. Sherwood, without time, with One window, no Benteke, worse squad, did, for a bit, get us playing a bit of good football, he kept us up, and we got to the Final. I can't see how, given the differences in circumstances, he can properly be compared to Lambert. My feeling is he would have got more out of the players Lambert had than Lambert did. As for Garde, he may be rubbish, he may not, he may be totally wrong for us, now, but in my view it is simply nonsensical to judge him as a Manager in the time he's had and the circumstances he's inherited. But if I have to pick one, I'd say Garde is, so far, the least awful. Yes I agree it is too early to make a proper judgement on Garde but I would have hoped he could have managed a win by now and some of his selections have been head scratchers. The one point I will make about Lambert is that whilst he did have a better squad, it was a squad he built himself on a budget much smaller than what Sherwood was allowed to spend. It is true Lambert had lost his way with us by the end but he kept us up each season and that is not something we are going to be able to say for Garde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 BTW, fwiw I thought we needed Pearson....because we aren't very good....particularly in terms of fight and hunger and desire.....he could have given us some solid foundations too..though he's a nutjob.......I suspect they thought they'd rather we became an Arsenal than a Leicester...and ..I suspect they, as well as Garde, and me, and others, hoped for more from him too, but there you go, we aren't very good are we ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Yes I agree it is too early to make a proper judgement on Garde but I would have hoped he could have managed a win by now and some of his selections have been head scratchers. The one point I will make about Lambert is that whilst he did have a better squad, it was a squad he built himself on a budget much smaller than what Sherwood was allowed to spend. It is true Lambert had lost his way with us by the end but he kept us up each season and that is not something we are going to be able to say for Garde. Lambert was taking us down. We'd be playing championship football this season if he hadn't of gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I don't want to get in to debate about Sherwood and Garde, but you could argue that Gana played better under Sherwood, I though he was going to be the best of the bunch. This problem we have was/is much bigger than them...... a manager is only as good as the players he has, sure motivation and blend etc come in, but there is only so much you can do.....Otherwise the great managers would not be so active in the transfer market. Remi is here and he must not be blamed for this. Appraised , judged, and constructively criticised, yes, but remember there are so many factors involved in the reasoning for changing a team, its not just based on form or ability. we don't get to know many of them. I just hope he doesn't get as much criticism as some of the previous managers when searching for his best eleven on the day, because at B6 it ain't quite as obvious as some try to claim. I am hoping after the January window it will be more obvious. Edited December 28, 2015 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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