The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[peterw]

19 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

To be contrary, there's nothing more tired than people asserting that literally everything is a distraction from something else.

you don't this is just a distraction? The timing of it? For Dorries to then say that it will there will be a consultation period that will be in 5 or 6 years (before they come up with a competent model for replacing or considering what to do with the licence fee). Literally all Qs were - this may not be anything yet, let's just wait. So, why announce it now? It wasn't in a manifesto. She said herself to the Select Committee that something would need to be in place before the govt. would even get to thsi point of freezing the licence fee. So, you have to ask yourself, what has changed? Why are they suddenly announcing this now? Why do they want people to be thinking about something other than the shit show that Johnson has created? I think its plain to see.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, peterw said:

you don't this is just a distraction? The timing of it? For Dorries to then say that it will there will be a consultation period that will be in 5 or 6 years (before they come up with a competent model for replacing or considering what to do with the licence fee). Literally all Qs were - this may not be anything yet, let's just wait. So, why announce it now? It wasn't in a manifesto. She said herself to the Select Committee that something would need to be in place before the govt. would even get to thsi point of freezing the licence fee. So, you have to ask yourself, what has changed? Why are they suddenly announcing this now? Why do they want people to be thinking about something other than the shit show that Johnson has created? I think its plain to see.

The timing may be a slight distraction but this card was going to get played at some point, it has been part of the throbby wing of the Tory Parties secret manifesto for absolutely ages, it's all part of the culture war

The thing is regardless of the timing this was always going to be on the agenda but they hadn't readied the public for it, I suspect that the voters aren't onside with it and more importantly, significant portions of their core support aren't onside with it either.

This particular dead cat has legs and will walk

[Mark Albrighton]

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, peterw said:

you don't this is just a distraction? The timing of it? For Dorries to then say that it will there will be a consultation period that will be in 5 or 6 years (before they come up with a competent model for replacing or considering what to do with the licence fee). Literally all Qs were - this may not be anything yet, let's just wait. So, why announce it now? It wasn't in a manifesto. She said herself to the Select Committee that something would need to be in place before the govt. would even get to thsi point of freezing the licence fee. So, you have to ask yourself, what has changed? Why are they suddenly announcing this now? Why do they want people to be thinking about something other than the shit show that Johnson has created? I think its plain to see.

My guess is that the decision to freeze the licence fee for two years was already decided and ready to announce, and then she was asked to pour a load of sauce on it about being 'the last licence fee renegotiation ever', for the reasons you say.

But my objection is not really whether this is or isn't an announcement whose timing is meant to help change the Discourse for a bit, it's that it doesn't matter whether it is or not, and that on the whole we should try and spend more time talking about important things and less time talking about parties. I mean, nobody can seriously be arguing at this point that the topic of Downing Street parties has been under-discussed or under-analysed. I haven't seen anyone say anything new or interesting about it for *weeks*, and the verdict per the polls is already in. I see from the news this morning that we are now going to get yet another 24 hours of party chat today, so anyone disappointed at having to think about other topics can breathe easy anyway.

[The Fun Factory]

12 hours ago, bickster said:

Just for a bit of fun, usual caveats apply (polls, models blah)

So first of all I took the latest Redfield Wilton Poll figures...

And then I put them into the election predicting thingy at electoralcalculus.co.uk but the amusing thing is to look at the list of casualties it produces amongst The Tories. Say bye to...Graham Brady, Steven Baker, Ben Wallace, Peter Bone, Grant Shapps, Alun Cairns, Ester McVey (again), Jacob Rees-Mogg, Liam Fox, Daniel Kawcynski, Natalie Elphicke, Iain Duncan Smith, George Eustace, Tobias Ellwood, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, Lee Anderson and best of all the big dog himself, Boris Johnson

It also highlights how many Tory MPs there are that I've never bloody heard of.

That's a fair system with the greens and lib dems having a combined 16% of the vote and 11 seats. 

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

my objection is not really whether this is or isn't an announcement whose timing is meant to help change the Discourse for a bit, it's that it doesn't matter whether it is or not, and that on the whole we should try and spend more time talking about important things and less time talking about parties. I mean, nobody can seriously be arguing at this point that the topic of Downing Street parties has been under-discussed or under-analysed. I haven't seen anyone say anything new or interesting about it for *weeks*, and the verdict per the polls is already in.

I think almost the opposite entirely.

The Prime Minister of the UK and leader of the Tories is hanging on to his job because he has repeatedly broken Covid rules and the Law and lied about it to parliament. As a consequence of that behaviour the current polls show that both he and the Tories are unpopular compared to Labour and SNP etc.

There's a whitewash, sorry investigation going on which (theoretically) could see him gone if the smoking gum murder weapon is revealed and has his finger prints on it. So we're at the bit of the TV show just before where Columbo ask "and one last question" which could see the culprit hauled off, or let free.

A change of leader will see a different Government direction and direction for the country, even more Austerity (Sunak), more Thatcherism (Truss) etc.

The noise around the BBC or Refugees or whatever - well, it is what it is - it's the same as it was 2 months ago and in 2019 and will be in a year.

 The Tories hate the BBC and want to cow it and bend it further to their will. The Tories are blind and unfeeling towards refugees. The stuff they've floated is not actually gonna happen in any meaningful way in the foreseeable future - it's just noise generated by Johnson to try to stop the ending of his go at being PM and divert from the dishonesty and law breaking.

In the world we live in, people (generally) are for once engaged (and angry) about what politicians have done, about one rule for them another for the rest of us, and it could see a major upheaval. Talking about the BBC's new funding arrangements in 6 years time right now is nothing but froth in comparison. Both from a news point of view and an opportunity for the opposition parties the law breaking is extremely important and extremely significant.

All IMO, of course. It's like the Poll tax that got Thatcher out - the level of unpopularity caused by a thing that resonated with the public directly has consequences out of actual proportion to whatever part it is that the PM themself played in it.

And lastly, it's the very strong suspicion that we haven't got to the end of the evidence of Bunter's lying and misbehaviour and that there's some more evidence to come out which will absolutely nail him to the wall. Bring it on!

[HanoiVillan]

@blandy I think it's fundamentally a very depressing view of politics that whether or not people who were working face to face anyway had alcoholic drinks and snacks after work is a more worthwhile topic of discussion than how the national broadcaster is funded or the way we treat refugees, and I'm not going to be changing my opinion on that, sorry.

However, I do concede that you've won, and that we're heading for months more drivel about this topic. Can't wait.

[bobzy]

38 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

That's a fair system with the greens and lib dems having a combined 16% of the vote and 11 seats. 

SNP get 4.2% of the vote and 59 seats, Reform get 4% of the vote and 0 seats  

[ml1dch]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

@blandy I think it's fundamentally a very depressing view of politics that whether or not people who were working face to face anyway had alcoholic drinks and snacks after work is a more worthwhile topic of discussion than how the national broadcaster is funded or the way we treat refugees, and I'm not going to be changing my opinion on that, sorry.

However, I do concede that you've won, and that we're heading for months more drivel about this topic. Can't wait.

Can't both be a bit right?

I would far prefer it if the population were rising up as one in anger about the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, or the inadequacies of the Brexit deal, or the Nationality and Borders Bill, or the Elections Bill or, or, or... All of them are far more important than something that is little more than a triviality. Certainly more worthy of discussion, and almost certainly more worthy of being angry about.

However - as they're not currently rising up in anger about those things, I'm quite happy to people to get furious over something that doesn't really matter instead. You never know, getting angry about the trivial thing might mean a few more people look into other things that make them angry which they might otherwise not have?

Edited January 18, 2022 by ml1dch

[HanoiVillan]

7 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Can't both be a bit right?

I would far prefer it if the population were rising up as one in anger about the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, or the inadequacies of the Brexit deal, or the Nationality and Borders Bill, or the Elections Bill or, or, or... All of them are far more important than something that is little more than a triviality. Certainly more worthy of discussion, and almost certainly more worthy of being angry about.

However - as they're not currently rising up in anger about those things, I'm quite happy to people to get furious over something that doesn't really matter instead. You never know, getting angry about the trivial thing might mean a few more people look into other things that make them angry which they might otherwise not have?

Sure, I'm happy people are annoyed with the government. But my comment is specifically in response to people who appear to be complaining that talking about *anything else at all* is bad because it is 'a dead cat'.

[blandy]

13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

@blandy I think it's fundamentally a very depressing view of politics that whether or not people who were working face to face anyway had alcoholic drinks and snacks after work is a more worthwhile topic of discussion than how the national broadcaster is funded or the way we treat refugees, and I'm not going to be changing my opinion on that, sorry.

However, I do concede that you've won, and that we're heading for months more drivel about this topic. Can't wait.

For me it's not about the importance per se, but the timing. Discuss the BBC when there's actual legislation on, or about to be put on, the table. I agree that the BBC's future is more important than cheese and wine parties. But a tweet about changing the funding model (without any idea as to what to change it to) is less time sensitively important than Johnson partying, while preventing people from going to the hospice to see loved ones for the last time, or going to their funeral. And then lying about it to the country and to Parliament. The Prime Minister lying to Parliament, to the electorate, acting unlawfully, breaking international law, breaching international treaties and all the rest is massively significant, and (obviously) ought to be paid for with his expulsion from office. It matters enormously (I think), much more than a broken swing and some suitcases of wine might suggest. 

[ml1dch]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Sure, I'm happy people are annoyed with the government. But my comment is specifically in response to people who appear to be complaining that talking about *anything else at all* is bad because it is 'a dead cat'.

Oh, sure. You can sign me up for that, no problem.

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

But my comment is specifically in response to people who appear to be complaining that talking about *anything else at all* is bad because it is 'a dead cat'.

I won't labour this any further, but the "dead cat" thing = "anything at all to distract form the shit I'm in, in the short term - Look over there". It matters not one jot what the distraction actually is. It's wriggle free from the noose. The most important thing to Bunter is to escape the noose. The most important thing for many of us is for him to hang. And then we can get back to legal normality (or whatever passes for that, these days).

[Seat68]

I see the rocket polisher Peter Bone has been saying his constituents in landlocked Wellingborough are more concerned about boats than Boris. clearing in the woods. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Seat68

[desensitized43]

3 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I see the rocket polisher Peter Bone has been saying his constituents in landlocked Wellingborough are more concerned about boats than Boris. clearing in the woods. 

Incredible anyone could vote for that idiot. Can you imagine hating yourself that much you'd vote for him?

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I see the rocket polisher Peter Bone has been saying his constituents in landlocked Wellingborough are more concerned about boats than Boris. clearing in the woods. 

He was on Newsnight last night, doing a great Peter Bone impression.

Apparently he’s been door to door and to a man, the good people of his area are fed up of hearing the BBC go on and on about parties, people are all bored of it and actually want to discuss why they have to pay for a BBC they don’t use.

He also checked in with a few of his local councillors who had been gauging opinion and the resounding message from absolutely everyone was move on and get the important business done, this is just a London media chattering point.

[Genie]

Link

Dominic Raab admits Boris Johnson will have to resign as PM if he lied to Parliament

Quote

Dominic Raab has admitted the Prime Minister would have to resign if he was found to have lied to Parliament over alleged lockdown breaking parties at No 10. 

The Deputy PM said that deliberately lying to Parliament would “normally” be a resigning matter.

He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “If it’s lying, deliberate in the way you describe, if it’s not corrected immediately, it would normally, under the Ministerial Code and the governance around Parliament, be a resigning matter.”

The use of the word “normally” quite key here.

Also, if he’s found to have lied to Parliament he should be sacked, arrested and charged. I hate that politicians who are caught red handed committing a crime can just resign and walk away.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Genie

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Link

Dominic Raab admits Boris Johnson will have to resign as PM if he lied to Parliament

The use of the word “normally” quite key here.

Not the first time he's done it either, he said very similar on one of the final Andrew Marr shows before Xmas

 

[a m ole]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

Link

Dominic Raab admits Boris Johnson will have to resign as PM if he lied to Parliament

The use of the word “normally” quite key here.

Also, if he’s found to have lied to Parliament he should be sacked, arrested and charged. I hate that politicians who are caught red handed committing a crime can just resign and walk away.

MPs used to resign for being caught engaging in consensual sex with people of the same gender. Wild.

[mjmooney]

15 minutes ago, Genie said:

Dominic Raab admits Boris Johnson will have to resign as PM if he lied to Parliament

Natch. Raab thinks he has a shot at getting the job.