The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Panto_Villan]

47 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I am in zero doubt that had Brown won the 2010 election and Labour subsequent ones this country would be in a far, far better place than it is now. 

Given the shit show we have now some seem to look back on the Cameron/Osborne years with rose tinted glasses. The ideological austerity they inflicted on this country and the pushing of millions into poverty and thousands into homelessness was unforgivable. They also planted and nurtured the seed of blaming others for your woes, at that time those on benefits, which then grew into also blaming the EU and Johnny foreigner.

There was also no magic money tree was there until we found tens of billions to siphon off into the hands of Tory donors and their friends and family. We have been duped. Well some of us have. 

There is a better way. There are better people now to vote for than these evil, self serving bastards. If you continue to believe there isn't though then you are playing right into Tory hands and are a huge part of the problem.

I think the New Labour years were good ones for the country and I rate both Blair and Brown as good PMs, but every party needs a spell on the sidelines every once in a while to keep them honest (ideally coupled with a credible opposition). The Tories badly need it right now.

However, people on here complaining about Tory corruption seem to conveniently forget things like the cash for honours scandal happening in the later Labour years. Labour also became vulnerable to it as time went on. Personally I think there have been more corruption under a fourth Labour term than there was under the Coalition government. Power does that to people.

Also, are you seriously suggesting that it was Cameron and Osborne that invented the concept of blaming other people (or the EU) for your problems? That’s ludicrous.

[markavfc40]

23 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

 

Also, are you seriously suggesting that it was Cameron and Osborne that invented the concept of blaming other people (or the EU) for your problems? That’s ludicrous.

No it wasn't them that created the whole concept but under Labour we never heard rhetoric such as " going out to work to see the neighbour next door with the blinds down because they are on benefits". They actively promoted division because they wanted the finger pointed at others for austerity, which was really about them making ideological choices, and not at them. People therefore started pointing the finger at their out of work neighbour,  their in work neighbour who needed to claim in work benefits, the bloke down the road who couldn't work because he had a disability. 

The EU referendum then became about how much better things could be out of the EU. Increased waiting times in NHS (waiting times were at record lows in 2010 under Labour) people duped that the NHS will be far better when we have this mythical extra 350 mill a week and we can control all these immigrants coming into the country taking up all our hospital beds as well as our social housing. 

The two worst things to happen in my adult life (I am 48) are self inflicted austerity which has pushed millions into poverty, including millions of working poor, thousands into homelessness (250% increase since 2010) and seen waiting times in NHS go from record lows in 2010 to record highs (pre covid).  The other is Brexit and the reason we voted to leave was that the Tories had created an environment in the 6 years pre 2016 where the likes of Farage and Banks could thrive and dupe people into blaming the EU/foreigners for their woes, woes created by the Tories. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by markavfc40

[chrisp65]

It’s interesting that the country as swung so far to the right in what is perceived as ‘normal’.

The PFI initiatives of 15 years ago, the ‘need’ to find another war to strut internationally, the cash for honours, all now feel like halcyon days of tranquility.

For me personally, one of the great tragedies of the last 2 years has been the absolute waste of an opportunity to think how we could do things differently for the good of all the people. I was in Croydon yesterday, for my sins, it was the first time in 2 years I could taste the diesel in the air. By lunchtime I could feel and taste the pollution and all I wanted to do was get home and have a shower.

That we are all being persuaded we have to race back to the old normal just lacks any vision, any imagination. Why are we persuading people that Croydon 2019 is the bar we want to get back to?

Two years for someone in government to have some sort of vision of how to extract the good points from the pandemic, and all they want to do is get us back in the office on a Wednesday, back in Pret on a Thursday, and back in Spoons on a Friday.

What a limited little view of serving the people.

 

[Panto_Villan]

13 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

No it wasn't them that created the whole concept but under Labour we never heard rhetoric such as " going out to work to see the neighbour next door with the blinds down because they are on benefits". They actively promoted division because they wanted the finger pointed at others for austerity, which was really about them making ideological choices, and not at them. People therefore started pointing the finger at their out of work neighbour,  their in work neighbour who needed to claim in work benefits, the bloke down the road who couldn't work because he had a disability. 

The EU referendum then became about how much better things could be out of the EU. Increased waiting times in NHS (waiting times were at record lows in 2010 under Labour) people duped that the NHS will be far better when we have this mythical extra 350 mill a week and we can control all these immigrants coming into the country taking up all our hospital beds as well as our social housing. 

The two worst things to happen in my adult life (I am 48) are self inflicted austerity which has pushed millions into poverty, including millions of working poor, thousands into homelessness (250% increase since 2010) and seen waiting times in NHS go from record lows in 2010 to record highs (pre covid).  The other is Brexit and the reason we voted to leave was that the Tories had created an environment in the 6 years pre 2016 where the likes of Farage and Banks could thrive and dupe people into blaming the EU/foreigners for their woes, woes created by the Tories. 

Yeah, I guess it depends how you view things. I’d argue the conditions for that had been created in the right-wing media a long time before Cameron, and he actually tried to make a deliberate break from some of those things in comparison to his predecessors. Detoxifying the Tory brand, etc.

Obviously his predecessors never got elected though, so a moderate Tory getting elected still represented quite a shift in that direction compared to Labour. So I get what you are saying too.

(I think Boris has a lot to answer for in the EU-bashing Brexit stakes even back when he was just a journalist. He laid a lot of the foundations for what happened later imo)

Edited January 15, 2022 by Panto_Villan

[markavfc40]

Seems Big Dog has been scratching his face.

[trekka]

[Rds1983]

 

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Two things always immediately spring to mind when I see this prick given TV/air time. Firstly what kind of imbecile went into a polling booth and stuck a X next to his name and secondly why is he given air time and inflicted on those of us not stupid enough to have voted for him. 

[LondonLax]

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

11 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

The absolute hatred displayed towards politicians other stripes (or different flavours of the same stripe) some display also ends up here.

If everything is always maximum outrage, there’s nowhere left to go when someone starts doing something actually outrageous. All politicians end up just being as bad as each other.

If you’re arguing Cameron is as bad as Boris you’re either extremely cynical or blinded by tribalism. (Not “you” specifically!)

Cameron was far worse than Boris to be honest.

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No it wasn't them that created the whole concept but under Labour we never heard rhetoric such as " going out to work to see the neighbour next door with the blinds down because they are on benefits". They actively promoted division because they wanted the finger pointed at others for austerity, which was really about them making ideological choices, and not at them. People therefore started pointing the finger at their out of work neighbour,  their in work neighbour who needed to claim in work benefits, the bloke down the road who couldn't work because he had a disability.

I fear you have forgotten that the New Labour years were absolutely full of demonisation of benefit claimants and the unemployed.

etc etc (there's plenty more examples in that thread if you want to go looking).

In practice Labour both prepared the ground for the program of austerity by demonising its victims themselves while in office, and did little to oppose it while the Tories pushed it through. Had Corbyn not won in 2015, Labour would have spent the next period in opposition supporting austerity measures (as Harman famously whipped them to do, and as the other leadership candidates supported in an attempt to appear 'credible' and 'aspirational').

[HanoiVillan]

Final post in this thread, but Sue Gray seems like someone people probably shouldn't be pinning too many hopes on:

Partygate investigator helped shield No.10 from scrutiny over Grenfell

'The top civil servant investigating parties at Downing Street has again been implicated in withholding information from public scrutiny – this time relating to the Grenfell Tower fire.

Documents uncovered today show Sue Gray was consulted over blocking a journalist's request for emails to and from Number 10 adviser Elizabeth Sanderson.

One Cabinet Office staffer wrote to a colleague: “I’ve discussed with Sue and we’ll probably be looking to withhold these emails, but I’ll confirm on Monday.”

It comes after a campaigner warned that Gray, who has been appointed to oversee the party probe, is “not a person that believes in open and full disclosure”. In documents obtained by openDemocracy, Gray was seen urging officers not to respond to a Freedom of Information (FOI) request about the infected blood scandal, instead citing the Chilcot Inquiry into the Iraq war as an example of how to “releas[e] the information in a managed way”.

[...]

Gray’s approach to FOI has been criticised on other occasions. In 2015, Chris Cook, then the policy editor for BBC Newsnight, wrote: “I know of half-a-dozen occasions where Ms Gray has intervened to tell departments to fight disclosures under the Freedom of Information Act.”'

more on link: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/partygate-investigator-helped-shield-no10-from-scrutiny-over-grenfell/

[Panto_Villan]

26 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Cameron was far worse than Boris to be honest.

Curious as to your reasoning on that?

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Curious as to your reasoning on that?

There's no great mystery to it. Austerity was an insanely damaging policy. It led to widening inequality, a collapsing social safety net, and even worse, it helped the UK economy fall far behind its peers. This country has had the most anaemic recovery from the financial crisis of any major country, bar arguably Japan. It defied both commonly understood macroeconomic theory and frankly common sense, and it was an absurd act of self-harm.

I doubt Johnson would or will top it even if he's in office for another decade.

[Lichfield Dean]

What on earth is this all about? Voting against this, for what reason? And to do so by such shady means? Good grief...

Quote

Government branded ‘disgrace’ after bid to strengthen Sarah Everard inquiry voted down at 12.30am

https://www.bigissue.com/news/politics/government-branded-disgrace-after-bid-to-strengthen-sarah-everard-inquiry-voted-down-at-12-30am/

 

[Genie]

Has anyone seen or heard Boris since PMQ’s on Thursday?

[StefanAVFC]

 

dim dorries at it again

Edited January 15, 2022 by StefanAVFC

[Xela]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

Has anyone seen or heard Boris since PMQ’s on Thursday?

He's at Oddbins. 

[bickster]

The Opinium Poll for the Observer that is the talk of the media

(other intersting bits in the continuing thread)

 

[Stevo985]

On the news earlier they interviewed people in Sutton Coldfield asking if they'd vote for Boris again.

One old dear said she would, and when asked why she said she had never ever voted in her life. Boris was the first person she'd ever voted for, and it was because he was just a normal person. "He's just like us" "he's one of us"

I don't understand why anyone would vote for Boris, but this sort of thing is the most ridiculous reason of them all. It is absolute horseshit and I don't understand how anyone could ever think Boris was just like them.

If Boris is just like you then you're a **** word removed