limpid Posted October 31, 2022 Administrator Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, foreveryoung said: Posts like this remind me why I don't get involved in these threads. Think i'll agree to disagree that 10k asylum seekers coming over the channel every month in dingys is a good thing, an they are only here to find work and intergrate into our communites. I'll leave it there, people can carry on living in there idealistic worlds as long as they want. You said they were "illegal". If you can't back that up and won't withdraw it, I'll assume that you were posting for effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, limpid said: You said they were "illegal". If you can't back that up and won't withdraw it, I'll assume that you were posting for effect. Like I said, I'm not going to find the page in the law book. But is crossing the channel without authorisation not illegal, what about funding criminal gangs to make the crossing, or not even going through the system, are you yourself not an illegal then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted October 31, 2022 Administrator Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, foreveryoung said: Like I said, I'm not going to find the page in the law book. But is crossing the channel without authorisation not illegal, what about funding criminal gangs to make the crossing, or not even going through the system, are you yourself not an illegal then? A person cannot be "illegal". People have the right to seek asylum in the UK. Otherwise we would be prosecuting them, whether their claim was successful or not. How many have been prosecuted for these things that you claim they are guilty of? Has there been a single one to justify collectively describing them as "illegal"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted October 31, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2022 Is anyone really surprised that a certain poster has this particular opinion? 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Like I said, I'm not going to find the page in the law book. But is crossing the channel without authorisation not illegal, what about funding criminal gangs to make the crossing, or not even going through the system, are you yourself not an illegal then? That's one of the issues, there is no system for most people. I believe there are some safe routes (e.g for Afghans, Ukrainians), but for others the only way they can claim asylum is at the UK border, hence having to make their own way. Add in completely inadequate processing when applications are made due to lack of funding etc and the end result is what we are seeing now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 13 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Like I said, I'm not going to find the page in the law book. But is crossing the channel without authorisation not illegal (1), what about funding criminal gangs to make the crossing (2), or not even going through the system (3), are you yourself not an illegal then? (1) You've said you're not going to tell us the law that you are quoting, and I'm not going to look either but my guess is "no". It's possible that are supposed to notify the relevant authorities if you want to swim it, for safety reasons. But I'd be surprised if there is a law against it. Any anyway, anyone embarking on such a journey would need to look at the appropriate French law, if one exists given that leaving the coast of France is where such an offence would be taking place. But I'd be surprised if they've bothered to legislate on it. (2) These are just bad words you've put together, not a law. There must be laws that these "criminal gangs" are breaking, otherwise they'd just be "gangs". If you give these gangs money to (eg) buy drugs then you are committing an offence, but if you are giving them money for them to help you do something that isn't illegal, then you are not committing an offence. And in addition, (1) applies, in that if this illegality is happening in France, then it's their law that matters. Giving undisclosed people money in Marseille for non-specific services which meant that you ended up on a beach on Kent isn't something that has made it into UK law just yet. (3) Which system? The Government could arrange easier, less dramatic ways for these claims to be made, they choose not to. A processing centre in Calais would seem to be the obvious one, and one that the French have said many times that they are comfortable with. Until there are ways that these claims can be made without resorting to dangerous Channel crossings, people will make the crossings and claim that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Is anyone really surprised that a certain poster has this particular opinion? Is anyone suprised a certain poster has entered the convo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HKP90 Posted October 31, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) No she's right, the fact we have food banks and people scrabbling around in poverty is nothing to do with the fact that the top 10% of UK households hold 43% of the country's wealth, and that the bottom 50% hold 9%. It's all down to foreigners. SMH. Edit- stats from ONS. Edited October 31, 2022 by HKP90 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted October 31, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Is anyone suprised a certain poster has entered the convo. I’d rather it was that way round. Shouldn’t you be running away crying that nobody agrees with your c*ntish opinion? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ingram85 Posted October 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: never mind the 20k coming in every month. 57 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Think i'll agree to disagree that 10k asylum seekers coming over the channel every month in dingys is a good thing You’ve already halved your expertly researched estimate by 50% in a single hour. So which is it, 20k, 10k, insert any other randomly made up number followed by drivel? 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I’d rather it was that way round. Shouldn’t you be running away crying that nobody agrees with your c*ntish opinion? Hit a nerve did i? As if I'm gonna run away crying cause some random on a forum comments like he's bored of being on twitter. People are going to have different opinions, try deal with it, though I keep forgetting it's not allowed is it, I have to agree with the crowd, or risk having random comments like the one above, which has nothing to do with the topic ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: You’ve already halved your expertly researched estimate by 50% in a single hour. So which is it, 20k, 10k, insert any other randomly made up number followed by drivel? I'm impressed, well spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 31, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: It's no good giving them jobs if we can't house them. According to the most recent government council taxbase figures released in November 2021, there are 238,306 homes in England that are classed as long-term empty homes. This means that they have been left vacant for more than six months. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Designer1 said: The mask slips again. It would just be a hell of a lot easier if people were honest that they don’t want to accept anyone coming over at all regardless of the worthiness of their case. Instead we get this hiding behind certain ‘ ‘red flag’ excuses they’ve picked up by certain publications. ”They’re criminals/illegals” - no one has ever been prosecuted for crossing the channel because there’s no law against requesting asylum. ”they’re all men, why can’t we accept some women” - but we don’t want to set up asylum application centres in foreign countries because that’ll encourage all of them to come. ”they're economic migrants” - but we need them to do the thousands of low skilled jobs we can’t fill. ”they don’t contribute” - all the evidence points to them being a net gain once they’ve been accepted. Tbh I do fee the conversation got a little off topic because I really don’t think todays latest government shitshow should be about whether any of the people coming across the channel deserve to be here or not. They’re here, so we need to process them in the most efficient and humane way possible. Only someone whose opinion is very morally questionable could argue that what we’re doing now is remotely acceptable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted November 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Posts like this remind me why I don't get involved in these threads. Think i'll agree to disagree that 10k asylum seekers coming over the channel every month in dingys is a good thing, an they are only here to find work and intergrate into our communites. I'll leave it there, people can carry on living in there idealistic worlds as long as they want. No one has said its a good thing. It's an incredibly sad thing. Most people can have empathy and compassion for these people and the situation they find themselves in. And then there's people like yourself, who allow themselves to be manipulated by right wing media and then do the classic thing of just repeating their lies and then play the victim card. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 8 hours ago, choffer said: The longer it goes on, the more I wonder if there ever was a mask in the first place. Maybe we just presumed there must have been because….well it was easier to think that people didn’t think and behave in such an ignorant and obnoxious way. There has been some research into this. The conclusion is not entirely surprising. Online Vs IRL behaviour. Quote The internet doesn’t turn people into assholes so much as it acts as a massive megaphone for existing ones, according to work by researchers at Aarhus University. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 11 hours ago, DCJonah said: It's not illegal to seek asylum in this country. I think its illegal to try to enter the UK without permission but that's for all forms of transport and people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted November 1, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Straggler said: There has been some research into this. The conclusion is not entirely surprising. Online Vs IRL behaviour. Not surprising, although I would suggest that assholes having a giant megaphone, and being able to put their viewpoint on the same platform as reasonable sources legitimises illegitimate ideologies, and enables other assholes. For that reason it is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I think its illegal to try to enter the UK without permission but that's for all forms of transport and people. If you are an Asylum seeker you can not be penalised for the way you arrive in the country, they are a specific exemption to illegal immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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