DCJonah Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Im going to state here and now I think TS is a disaster waiting to happen. In 3 months he moved us up 1 place in the league. Mainly due to Benteke finding his scoring boots and Burnley beating Hull. Along the way he appears to have alientated Guzan, Gil , Cissokho - we don't have enough money to discard such players.... Don't you think Sherwood deserves some credit for Benteke finding his scoring boots. Sherwood has done a fantastic job from where we were. i can't understand the negatitvity Yes the gets some credit for Benteke. But if Sherwood has done a fantastic job - how would you describe the work of Pardew, Pullis,even Advocat ? Fantastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I haven't gone through the whole of this thread but have found little mention of Tony Parkes, our "Goalkeeping Coach". Sitting not far from the dug out he strikes me as another Culverhouse; very vocal, loud mouthed, aggressive etc and I have notice how a number of players in midfield and defence seem to ignore him. If he is "Goalkeeping Coach" why is he the main mouthpiece from the line and is he supposed to be any good? I am not for treating the players with kid gloves but the big gob style didn't work when we had Culverhouse and I very much doubt Parkes will be any better. He was at it constantly during the final and it didn't make a blind bit of difference. Throw in the slump of Guzans form. - and your absolutley right. Apparently he coaches the defenders as well as the keepers. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think if we are all honest the major warning signs came at Southampton because he didn't react. Not to 3 quick fire goals, but to them getting in over the top at will before they scored. That result has had a knock on effect and the players haven't looked the same since. Before that game he was almost untouchable. Yep. I was screaming at the TV because it was so obvious that a high line was suicide yet we persisted. Then the decision to play key players for 90 minutes against burnley was mental. Those 2 games set up Saturday imo Before then, he was untouchable and was doing a brilliant job. It didn't matter where the back 4 were positioning themselves, they were that poor that we were lucky to get away with 6 in the first half. Vlaar & Okore single handedly gifted Southampton at least half of their goals. The marking was non-existant Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) Edited June 1, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) I haven't gone through the whole of this thread but have found little mention of Tony Parkes, our "Goalkeeping Coach". Sitting not far from the dug out he strikes me as another Culverhouse; very vocal, loud mouthed, aggressive etc and I have notice how a number of players in midfield and defence seem to ignore him. If he is "Goalkeeping Coach" why is he the main mouthpiece from the line and is he supposed to be any good? I am not for treating the players with kid gloves but the big gob style didn't work when we had Culverhouse and I very much doubt Parkes will be any better. He was at it constantly during the final and it didn't make a blind bit of difference. Throw in the slump of Guzans form. - and your absolutley right. Apparently he coaches the defenders as well as the keepers. Enough said. Apparently Freidel wants to get into coaching, I'd have him in as a goal keeping coach over Parkes in a flash. Always comes across as a passionate and intelligent footballer. Edited June 1, 2015 by jon_c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) There's a difference between a league game and a cup final. I'm not saying Sherwood got it right (he didn't), but let's consider this... Swansea recently beat Arsenal 1-0 by starting with 0 strikers and sitting off Arsenal. They brought Gomis on late on (75th minute or something?) who subsequently scored the winner. Swansea got praised for their tactics (and rightly so) but... ..just imagine the backlash Sherwood would've received if he didn't start Benteke in an F.A. Cup final and Arsenal had still gone on to win. It's a hugely different occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) But then you have some who are criticising Sherwood for not playing 2 up top, or with wingers. Its hilarious. Then you have someone who went there expecting to lose but is still criticising because we didn't lose well. You really couldn't make this stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) There's a difference between a league game and a cup final. I'm not saying Sherwood got it right (he didn't), but let's consider this... Swansea recently beat Arsenal 1-0 by starting with 0 strikers and sitting off Arsenal. They brought Gomis on late on (75th minute or something?) who subsequently scored the winner. Swansea got praised for their tactics (and rightly so) but... ..just imagine the backlash Sherwood would've received if he didn't start Benteke in an F.A. Cup final and Arsenal had still gone on to win. It's a hugely different occasion. Sorry bobzy, I'm not sure what your point is? You've made up a completely hypothetical situation. Do I think Sherwood should have not started Benteke? No of course not. Do I think he should have done something different than he did? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) But then you have some who are criticising Sherwood for not playing 2 up top, or with wingers. Its hilarious. Then you have someone who went there expecting to lose but is still criticising because we didn't lose well. You really couldn't make this stuff up. People are criticising him for not trying something different. That is just one option. Put it this way, if you could go back in time and change our lineup and approach, would you keep it exactly the same? At half time would you still have it the same? After 60 minutes would you still not change anything? The second bit you actually have made up, which makes your last sentence quite ironic. You've twisted Stefan's words and you know it. Edited June 1, 2015 by Stevo985 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) But then you have some who are criticising Sherwood for not playing 2 up top, or with wingers. Its hilarious. Then you have someone who went there expecting to lose but is still criticising because we didn't lose well. You really couldn't make this stuff up. You could. Because you did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The way arsenal were playing everyone of their players was on form. The most we could have hoped for was to lose 3-2 AVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Im going to state here and now I think TS is a disaster waiting to happen. In 3 months he moved us up 1 place in the league. Mainly due to Benteke finding his scoring boots and Burnley beating Hull. Along the way he appears to have alientated Guzan, Gil , Cissokho - we don't have enough money to discard such players.... Don't you think Sherwood deserves some credit for Benteke finding his scoring boots. Sherwood has done a fantastic job from where we were. i can't understand the negatitvity Yes the gets some credit for Benteke. But if Sherwood has done a fantastic job - how would you describe the work of Pardew, Pullis,even Advocat ? Fantastic? The transformation under Sherwood to what we got under Lambert was amazing. The way we played at Man City and at home against Everton and in the semi against Liverpool. he beat Pullis twice in a week. We ran out of steam the last 3 games but I think the transformation under Sherwood has been fantastic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Comon, every fan knows, a on fire Villa side can beat anyone, or at least give a good game an compete. Liverpool are not a bad side, they wanted FA cup and we dominated them. Its no excuse its Arsenal. As far as I'm concerned Sherwood didn't even put our best side out there Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khizzy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I've got a vision of Tim Sherwood doing a David Brent in the Wembley changing room and going round all the players one by one at full time and telling them individually "You're not gonna lose your job", whilst skipping the likes of Weimann etc! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But then you have some who are criticising Sherwood for not playing 2 up top, or with wingers. Its hilarious. Then you have someone who went there expecting to lose but is still criticising because we didn't lose well. You really couldn't make this stuff up. People are criticising him for not trying something different. That is just one option. Put it this way, if you could go back in time and change our lineup and approach, would you keep it exactly the same? The second bit you actually have made up, which makes your last sentence quite ironic. You've twisted Stefan's words and you know it. How have I twisted his words? He didn't expect to win so presumably, if we'd have kept the score down to 1 or 2, he'd have been happy? What else does he have to moan about? I'm still waiting for someone to come out and tell me what Sherwood could have done differently. I don't mean beforehand, I mean during the game and at what point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piav_k4 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Comon, every fan knows, a on fire Villa side can beat anyone, or at least give a good game an compete. Liverpool are not a bad side, they wanted FA cup and we dominated them. Its no excuse its Arsenal. As far as I'm concerned Sherwood didn't even put our best side out there Saturday! An on fire Villa side couldn't have beaten the on fire performance Arsenal produced on Saturday I am sad to say. They murdered us going forward and defended so well that we didn't get a sniff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) There's a difference between a league game and a cup final. I'm not saying Sherwood got it right (he didn't), but let's consider this... Swansea recently beat Arsenal 1-0 by starting with 0 strikers and sitting off Arsenal. They brought Gomis on late on (75th minute or something?) who subsequently scored the winner. Swansea got praised for their tactics (and rightly so) but... ..just imagine the backlash Sherwood would've received if he didn't start Benteke in an F.A. Cup final and Arsenal had still gone on to win. It's a hugely different occasion. Sorry bobzy, I'm not sure what your point is? You've made up a completely hypothetical situation. Do I think Sherwood should have not started Benteke? No of course not. Do I think he should have done something different than he did? Yes. You're taking it personally. Eames suggested that "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal because of good tactical performances. I'm in agreeance with this, but don't think a cup final is the place to do the same thing as, for example, Swansea - who recently beat Arsenal as mentioned. Perhaps I didn't explain it well. Basically, this things are more likely to happen in a league game where you can get "a result" from playing negatively. In a cup final, I'd assume it less likely as you basically have to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But then you have some who are criticising Sherwood for not playing 2 up top, or with wingers. Its hilarious. Then you have someone who went there expecting to lose but is still criticising because we didn't lose well. You really couldn't make this stuff up. People are criticising him for not trying something different. That is just one option. Put it this way, if you could go back in time and change our lineup and approach, would you keep it exactly the same? The second bit you actually have made up, which makes your last sentence quite ironic. You've twisted Stefan's words and you know it. How have I twisted his words? He didn't expect to win so presumably, if we'd have kept the score down to 1 or 2, he'd have been happy? What else does he have to moan about? I'm still waiting for someone to come out and tell me what Sherwood could have done differently. I don't mean beforehand, I mean during the game and at what point. I've already explained this quite clearly but I'm happy to do so again for you. I didn't EXPECT us to win. I EXPECTED us to have a go and a fight and maybe, just maybe we could sneak a win. What actually happened was a pathetic, humiliating display in that we were publicly embarrassed on national TV. If you could stop twisting my words now that would be grand. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference. The teams that have beaten Arsenal have parked the bus and scored from a break. I don't recall too many on here suggesting we did that pre-match So? What difference does that make? (and fwiw it's not true. Whilst maybe not "parking the bus" was suggested, there were plenty of people asking for a much more reserved approach than previous games. Everyone and his dog knew that if we go "toe to toe" with arsenal we get beaten) There's a difference between a league game and a cup final. I'm not saying Sherwood got it right (he didn't), but let's consider this... Swansea recently beat Arsenal 1-0 by starting with 0 strikers and sitting off Arsenal. They brought Gomis on late on (75th minute or something?) who subsequently scored the winner. Swansea got praised for their tactics (and rightly so) but... ..just imagine the backlash Sherwood would've received if he didn't start Benteke in an F.A. Cup final and Arsenal had still gone on to win. It's a hugely different occasion. Sorry bobzy, I'm not sure what your point is? You've made up a completely hypothetical situation. Do I think Sherwood should have not started Benteke? No of course not. Do I think he should have done something different than he did? Yes. You're taking it personally. Eames suggested that "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal because of good tactical performances. I'm in agreeance with this, but don't think a cup final is the place to do the same thing as, for example, Swansea - who recently beat Arsenal as mentioned. Perhaps I didn't explain it well. Basically, this things are more likely to happen in a league game where you can get "a result" from playing negatively. In a cup final, I'd assume it less likely as you basically have to win. What a strange statement. I'd say an FA Cup Final is EXACTLY the time to do what Swansea did to Arsenal. Performance/Quality of football means nothing if you win. No one cares if you bore the arse off fans/media/opponents if you win. 20 years ago Arsenal fans were chanting "1-0 to the Arsenal" not caring that it was awful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 What are all these "Plan B's" then guys? First half we were on the back foot and riding our luck. Would you have changed anything after 10 mins? 20 mins? or 30 mins? If so what? We almost got to half time at 0-0. Who knows, the way the game was going, maybe we would have parked the bus 2nd half? We were clearly being outplayed by an on fire Arsenal. The 2nd goal was a killer-It came from nowhere and obviously blew the half time re-think out of the water. At this stage, we had to go offensive. Bacuna & Gabby were the obvious changes. So we changed personnel and changed formation. What other options were there? Joe Cole or Sinclair for Grealish maybe? I honestly don't see what we could have done that wasn't done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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