The Tim Sherwood Thread

[powell91]

Tim hit the nail on the head saturday we do have a losing mentality and have always been that team to gift bad form teams a win or a out of form striker a goal etc..

 

He massivley got it wrong on saturday tactically and he should have definatly rested a few legs on the burnley game. He set the team up pretty much exactly how wenger knew he would and so he was ready for it. Teams that have beat arsenal this season and the past few seasons have always played a park the bus style game which frustrates arsenal and then just hit them on the counter.Look at teams like stoke who constantly have the rub of the green over arsenal we should be looking at those matches and thinking what are they doing to mute arsenal.

 

This is where its evident tht tim is still a new manager learning his trade and i think he needs to be able and willing to take a risk and change it up. With our defence being so leaky at the moment it would have made sense to play a back 5.

[StefanAVFC]

When plan A hasn't worked in the first half, you can give it 10 minutes of the second half. When it still hasn't worked after an hour, then perhaps, just perhaps, it's time to try plan B.

There was no plan B. There wasn't even an attempt to do plan A quicker, or deeper, or less shit.

There wasn't even a plan A

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

Your opinion is that other people's opinions are bizarre and over the top (you did say that)

As SBS said, if people can't have opinions may as well shut the forum down.

Sherwood got it wrong the last 3 weeks. Not even seeing how he could be criticised for that is bizarre to me.

Also calling the FA cup a bonus is so small time it hurts. May as well have not turned up then.

How did he get it wrong on Saturday? What masterstroke would you have pulled to win us that cup, that Sherwood failed to see?

 

I wouldn't have tried to match the one of the best midfield in the country man for man. 

 

I wouldn't have persisted with the tactic when after 10 mins it was clear we were getting hammered in midfield. 

 

I wouldn't have made the pitch as narrow as possible I'd have made it as wide as possible and banged crosses into Benteke. 

 

I wouldn't have isolated Benteke by leaving him stuck up front by himself trying to get knock downs and holding up with noone to play to. 

 

We might still have lost - thats fine. They ARE the better team..... but it would have looked like we were putting in some bloody effort. 

 

Yeah-Making the pitch as wide as possible against Arsenal is a great shout.

 

Making the pitch wide as possible would have (presumably) meant playing wingers-How would that possibly help our centre midfielders (2 & not 3) playing against (by your own admission) one of the best midfields in the country.

 

Thank God you weren't in charge on Saturday-They'd have been into double figures

 

So your suggestion, when we're getting absolutely spanked, is to not try something different because we might get absolutely spanked.

Interesting.

[villaglint]

 

Yes Stevo but clearly Sherwood still felt that was our best bet, he doesnt see us as being a team which can sit deep against quality opposition, he tried that away against Utd and got the same result.

 

So whatever his faults maybe I think if a side as good as Arsenal turn up on the day and you dont then your between a rock and a hard place. I am not overly angry at Sherwood.

People got slaughtered for having this "they're a better team so we were always going to lose" attitude 6-9 months ago.

 

I'm not angry at Sherwood either. Far from it.

 

But I do think he shoulders SOME of the blame for Saturday's performance, which was an embarrassment.

 

 

I dont think we were always going to lose far from it I actually felt quite optimistic on the day.

 

But they are a quality side and they played very well, we unfortunatley played below ourselves and I think the season caught up with us, probably a couple of weeks a go. I remember thinking in the QPR game that Delph and Cleverly couldnt possibly keep working that hard all season and I think both have dropped their levels in the past few week.

 

I think it is fair to blame to Sherwood for some of it but for me its pretty much even all round rather than being anybodys "fault".

[hippo]

 

Im going to state here and now I think TS is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

In 3 months he moved us up 1 place in the league. Mainly due to Benteke finding his scoring boots and Burnley beating Hull. Along the way he appears to have alientated Guzan, Gil , Cissokho  - we don't have enough money to discard such players....

 

Don't you think Sherwood deserves some credit for Benteke finding his scoring boots. Sherwood has done a fantastic job from where we were. i can't understand the negatitvity

 

 

Yes the gets some credit for Benteke.

 

But if Sherwood has done a fantastic job - how would you describe the work of Pardew, Pullis,even Advocat ?  

[sexbelowsound]

I think if we are all honest the major warning signs came at Southampton because he didn't react. Not to 3 quick fire goals, but to them getting in over the top at will before they scored. 

 

That result has had a knock on effect and the players haven't looked the same since.

 

Before that game he was almost untouchable.

[useless]

Benteke was always going to return to form sooner or later.

[Butterfingers]

Had we won would the FA cup still be counted as a bonus?

Given the season that we had and what was at stake with our league status, the FA cup was certainly a (welcome) bonus.

 

The league results were far more important. Albion in the league was 10 times more important than Albion in the cup. Totenham away was 10 times more important than Liverpool in the cup. The cup provided a welcome break from the league. Obviously the final became important but prior to that, the cup run was simply a bonus that none had expected when we played Bournmouth in January

[StefanAVFC]

I think if we are all honest the major warning signs came at Southampton because he didn't react. Not to 3 quick fire goals, but to them getting in over the top at will before they scored.

That result has had a knock on effect and the players haven't looked the same since.

Before that game he was almost untouchable.

Yep. I was screaming at the TV because it was so obvious that a high line was suicide yet we persisted.

Then the decision to play key players for 90 minutes against burnley was mental.

Those 2 games set up Saturday imo

Before then, he was untouchable and was doing a brilliant job.

[Butterfingers]

 

 

 

 

Your opinion is that other people's opinions are bizarre and over the top (you did say that)

As SBS said, if people can't have opinions may as well shut the forum down.

Sherwood got it wrong the last 3 weeks. Not even seeing how he could be criticised for that is bizarre to me.

Also calling the FA cup a bonus is so small time it hurts. May as well have not turned up then.

How did he get it wrong on Saturday? What masterstroke would you have pulled to win us that cup, that Sherwood failed to see?

 

I wouldn't have tried to match the one of the best midfield in the country man for man. 

 

I wouldn't have persisted with the tactic when after 10 mins it was clear we were getting hammered in midfield. 

 

I wouldn't have made the pitch as narrow as possible I'd have made it as wide as possible and banged crosses into Benteke. 

 

I wouldn't have isolated Benteke by leaving him stuck up front by himself trying to get knock downs and holding up with noone to play to. 

 

We might still have lost - thats fine. They ARE the better team..... but it would have looked like we were putting in some bloody effort. 

 

Yeah-Making the pitch as wide as possible against Arsenal is a great shout.

 

Making the pitch wide as possible would have (presumably) meant playing wingers-How would that possibly help our centre midfielders (2 & not 3) playing against (by your own admission) one of the best midfields in the country.

 

Thank God you weren't in charge on Saturday-They'd have been into double figures

 

So your suggestion, when we're getting absolutely spanked, is to not try something different because we might get absolutely spanked.

Interesting.

 

Which part of my post actually says this?

 

The poster is claiming that is what he would have done from the start-It would have been suicide.

[hippo]

Lets say he walked today

 

Would anyone on here seriously be thinking:-

 

"Were done for now Sherwood has left" ?

[sexbelowsound]

Lets say he walked today

 

Would anyone on here seriously be thinking:-

 

"Were done for now Sherwood has left" ?

 

I wouldn't be thinking we are done for but I'd be pretty gutted tbh. I do still think we have a rough diamond here.

[Stevo985]

Lets say he walked today

 

Would anyone on here seriously be thinking:-

 

"Were done for now Sherwood has left" ?

It's too early to say either way.

 

If he does well in the transfer market and gets players in who suit his system well then he will be a very good manager for us, imo. That's what I'm looking forward to next season.

[chrisp65]

Lets say he walked today

 

Would anyone on here seriously be thinking:-

 

"Were done for now Sherwood has left" ?

 

I'd be confident that by October at the very latest, Lerner would approve the short list.

[useless]

If he left today the only thing that would worry me is who would come in to replace him.

[Eames]

 

 

 

 

 

Your opinion is that other people's opinions are bizarre and over the top (you did say that)

As SBS said, if people can't have opinions may as well shut the forum down.

Sherwood got it wrong the last 3 weeks. Not even seeing how he could be criticised for that is bizarre to me.

Also calling the FA cup a bonus is so small time it hurts. May as well have not turned up then.

How did he get it wrong on Saturday? What masterstroke would you have pulled to win us that cup, that Sherwood failed to see?

 

I wouldn't have tried to match the one of the best midfield in the country man for man. 

 

I wouldn't have persisted with the tactic when after 10 mins it was clear we were getting hammered in midfield. 

 

I wouldn't have made the pitch as narrow as possible I'd have made it as wide as possible and banged crosses into Benteke. 

 

I wouldn't have isolated Benteke by leaving him stuck up front by himself trying to get knock downs and holding up with noone to play to. 

 

We might still have lost - thats fine. They ARE the better team..... but it would have looked like we were putting in some bloody effort. 

 

Yeah-Making the pitch as wide as possible against Arsenal is a great shout.

 

Making the pitch wide as possible would have (presumably) meant playing wingers-How would that possibly help our centre midfielders (2 & not 3) playing against (by your own admission) one of the best midfields in the country.

 

Thank God you weren't in charge on Saturday-They'd have been into double figures

 

So your suggestion, when we're getting absolutely spanked, is to not try something different because we might get absolutely spanked.

Interesting.

 

Which part of my post actually says this?

 

The poster is claiming that is what he would have done from the start-It would have been suicide.

 

So was what he did  do - but at least changing it up a bit might have shown a bit of desire and effort. 

[MikeMcKenna]

I haven't gone through the whole of this thread but have found little mention of Tony Parkes, our "Goalkeeping Coach". Sitting not far from the dug out he strikes me as another Culverhouse; very vocal, loud mouthed, aggressive etc and I have notice how a number of players in midfield and defence seem to ignore him. If he is "Goalkeeping Coach" why is he the main mouthpiece from the line and is he supposed to be any good? I am not for treating the players with kid gloves but the big gob style didn't work when we had Culverhouse and I very much doubt Parkes will be any better. He was at it constantly during the final and it didn't make a blind bit of difference.

[bobzy]

 

Remember in February when we were going to break Derby's record for the lowest goal total in the Premier League?

 

Sherwood got us excited to watch the Villa again. Yes, he offered basically nothing in the Cup final, but given how Arsenal played, we were probably losing anyway. We'll have bad games under him and hopefully he'll learn from them, but when we were parked in the bottom 3 and totally unable to score goals, if you'd offered me the rest of the season as it played out under Sherwood, i'd have bitten your hand off.

 

Let's hope he can push us further next season

 

Agree with everything except the bold part. I think that's the loser mentality that Sherwood is referring to. We allowed Arsenal to play that way because of the way we set up and the fact that we gave them nothing to worry about defensively. The players looked beaten before they even touched the ball.

 

 

I'm not buying this "loser mentality" thing at all to be honest.  We've beaten decent teams throughout the past 3/4 seasons of struggle - the problem has moreso been beating the sides around us.  This changed to an extent this season, but still contributes to finishing where we did.

 

We lost to Arsenal 3-0, 5-0 and 4-0 this season.  I don't attribute this to the squad having a "loser mentality" - I attribute it to the fact that Arsenal are a very good team and more than capable of tearing us apart.  Our players don't suit playing against fast paced, tricky teams.  Southampton and Arsenal only emphasised that recently.

 

The issue in the final, if anything, was more of a tactical one.  We played the same midfield we usually do (Westwood/Delph/Cleverley) and got absolutely overrun by a pressing, 5-man midfield who then were able to utilize the pace of Walcott up front.

[hippo]

 

Lets say he walked today

 

Would anyone on here seriously be thinking:-

 

"Were done for now Sherwood has left" ?

It's too early to say either way.

 

If he does well in the transfer market and gets players in who suit his system well then he will be a very good manager for us, imo. That's what I'm looking forward to next season.

 

 

Hope youre right.

 

I actually like TS - When he speaks its mostly stuff I agree with.

 

However my major reservations are:-

 

1.Can he organise a defence - if he can't it doesn't matter who the faces are in that defence

 

2.His handling of players such as Guzan, Gil, Cissokho - those players could still do a job for us - what happens we players he signs hit a rough patch

 

He will stay of course, Im not convinced it won't end in tears pretty quickly next season

[Eames]

Agree that Arsenal are a good side. Worth considering that Ozil and Sanchez's combined fees will get you 10 Bentekes. 

 

However - "lesser" teams have beaten Arsenal this season - because the tactics and performances have been good enough to allow them to do so - that is the difference.