The Tim Sherwood Thread

[markavfc40]

Some cracking rewriting of history going on in here. We were an absolute shambles when Lambert took the exit door and had you have had a poll the night we lost to Hull I'd be confident that 99.9% of fans would have said we are going down and going down with a whimper. We had scored 12 goals in 25 games ffs, could hardly create a decent chance and had little to no fight in us. We were a clueless, gutless mess.

Sherwood isn't the second coming far from it. I have not seen one poster say they think is a good manager yet as his record and short career wouldn't warrant such praise. I couldn't care less either way if he stays or goes frankly. What I do know though is that he does deserve praise for keeping us up last season and giving us the added bonus of a cup final and a couple of cracking derby wins in the 3 months he had last season. He also potentially deserves a pat on the back for putting together a decent squad of players with much potential for a small net spend whilst reducing the wage bill. I also think he does deserve a fair chance at getting the best of the squad he has assembled and less than 10 competitive games is not even close to a fair chance.

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by markavfc40

[KJT123]

Didn't want him here. Never really liked him. But he does deserve huge credit for turning it around last season. I think he definitely deserves until Christmas at the very least.

[Tomaszk]

Haven't been on here too much since Leicester game, been too annoyed. I'll probably be making points that people have already viciously debunked.

Tim Sherwood is Paolo Di Canio. We are in trouble if he stays here.

The Lambert shambles has scarred me no doubt. I was with him for so long, thinking we'd get better, but it was never for more than about two games. Focusing on Tim though, he doesn't do it for me.

He kept us up last season, but we literally could not get any worse. Feather in his cap was beating Liverpool. They were a shambles by that point; they lost 3-1 home to Palace and 6-1 at Stoke after our match.

 

Leicester: Being totally dominated and pinch a great goal on the break. He brings off a midfielder and goes...4-2-4?! He then brings off Gabby, who we'd just seen is useful on the break for Gestede, so that's taking away a winger for a proper centre forwards leaving the midfield with even more work to do. Behaves like a child post-match.

WBA: Game stank of 1-0 West Brom from the off. We are hideously narrow. Spend the second half booting the ball to Gestede (note - not crossing it).

Blues: Scrape a win with a good goal having being outplayed first half. Decides he needs to cover himself and stands there with a straight face saying it was his plan to... let them get at us? Brought Grealish on, who won us the game. Maybe he didn't want to win it by too much so left him on the bench. Incidentally, I can absolutely believe the story about the team being leaked, all he does is talk to journalists to get pally with them so they don't slate him when he says stoopid stuff like we planned to let the team from the division below get the better of us first half, then surprise them second.

Liverpool: Two poor sides. That Liverpool team was so nervous, we could have had a lot more success. Gestede scores from crosses, we know this, why do we have no width going forwards? All our width comes from fullbacks, if we had some more spread across the front players, Gestede would be causing mayhem every time the ball is in the channel. We are so narrow and don't get the ball into the area anywhere near enough from a touchline position.

 

Stop playing Bacuna anywhere near the middle of the pitch.

Stop playing Westwood and Sanchez in the same midfield, they want to stand in the same position, how can he not see this? Milner goal is from those two trying to not cover the same spot. Westwood being forced into a role that he's painfully unsuited to. 

Gil should be playing anytime he can walk.

I think we've now got the makings of a good side, but I do not trust the man leading them at all.

Stoke game huge bearing in mind what comes after... Chelsea, Swansea, Saints (cup), Tottenham, City, Everton.

 

[foreveryoung]

Some cracking rewriting of history going on in here. We were an absolute shambles when Lambert took the exit door and had you have had a poll the night we lost to Hull I'd be confident that 99.9% of fans would have said we are going down and going down with a whimper. We had scored 12 goals in 25 games ffs, could hardly create a decent chance and had little to no fight in us. We were a clueless, gutless mess.

Sherwood isn't the second coming far from it. I have not seen one poster say they think is a good manager yet as his record and short career wouldn't warrant such praise. I couldn't care less either way if he stays or goes frankly. What I do know though is that he does deserve praise for keeping us up last season and giving us the added bonus of a cup final and a couple of cracking derby wins in the 3 months he had last season. He also potentially deserves a pat on the back for putting together a decent squad of players with much potential for a small net spend whilst reducing the wage bill. I also think he does deserve a fair chance at getting the best of the squad he has assembled and less than 10 competitive games is not even close to a fair chance.

 

He got us to a cup final, an then we didn't turn up to the actual final. I wouldn't really give him praise for that. As said before, he didn't turn around last season. Benteke's goals kept us up and im sure any other manager barr Lambert admittedly, would have done the same

6-1 loss to Southampton, an a embarrassing defeat at Wembley did not warrant his tenure as the start of the big turn around. The team got safe then backed off, which even gives me doubts weather he is even this great motivator.

 

[Spoony]

I totally get the criticism of Sherwood but some people have shockingly short memories when it comes to Lambert. That was the worst period of any football team ever.

[markavfc40]

He got us to a cup final, an then we didn't turn up to the actual final. I wouldn't really give him praise for that. As said before, he didn't turn around last season. Benteke's goals kept us up and im sure any other manager barr Lambert admittedly, would have done the same

6-1 loss to Southampton, an a embarrassing defeat at Wembley did not warrant his tenure as the start of the big turn around. The team got safe then backed off, which even gives me doubts weather he is even this great motivator.

 

 

The final was a disgraceful performance no two ways about it. That doesn't take away for me the elation I felt during the quarter final win at a packed Villa Park against our near neighbours and then standing in Wembley with my daughter as she witnessed us win at Wembley for the first time in a superb all round performance against Liverpool. Both of which weeks earlier under Lambert would have seemed like a pipe dream and I'd have been sectioned for suggesting either could happen.

You can choose to look at Sherwoods time here in one of three ways. Focus on only the negatives, focus on only the positives or take a balanced view. I think those views very much depend on just how deeply you dislike the guy and given some of the comments the day he was appointed some absolutely detest him which doesn't align itself too well when looking for a balanced view.

I don't think one supporter focus's solely on the positives of his time here. No one likes him that much or rates him that highly to stick their neck on the line. I think there is a divide appearing though between those of us that see the bad and the good in what he has done here and believe on balance he has earned the right to be given a fair chance with his own squad. Then there are those that never wanted him, can't stand him, simply don't rate him and now less than 10 competitive games into the new season with his own squad, and in fairness a poor start, want him out or are very much baying for his blood.

To those that do want him gone though I think at this stage you have gone way too early and it is very much wishful thinking if you believe there is a chance he will be gone any time soon. I would therefore hope you will be willing the manager to start to get things right and that at the games at least will give your full backing to a group of players, many of which are young and new to this league/country, who if the manager is as bad as some think he is, need all the help they can get.

Edited September 28, 2015 by markavfc40

[CrackpotForeigner]

I totally get the criticism of Sherwood but some people have shockingly short memories when it comes to Lambert. That was the worst period of any football team ever.

 

For me, this is. Mainly because our players cost three times as much as they did under Lambert and look about three times better. We were going down under Lambert, and he had to go, but there's some doubt in my mind as to whether we've replaced him with better.

I have nothing against Tim. I enjoy his mouthiness up to a point, and I wish him the success that his excellent transfer work deserves. But what we're seeing (and hearing for that matter) is raising alarm bells, especially since he has never managed any team for a full season, ever. Tomas summed up the reasons for having misgivings better than I could four posts back.

Edited September 29, 2015 by CrackpotForeigner
Sandwiches

[jackbauer24]

I think it's too early to be calling for the manager's head, despite being worryingly convinced we're getting relegated. However, I've said it a million times - the manager situation is kind of irrelevant whist we have Lerner refusing to invest in transfers or wages. I strongly suspect the current wage bill is considerably less than even Lambert's time in charge and wages hold an even stronger correlation to quality than transfer fees do.

But back to Sherwood. On one hand he's had the misfortune to lose key players but on the other he's at least had the chance to create his own team. Lambert never got the luxury of spending any decent player sales figures so always had to scrape and gamble  (Benteke being proof he got it right sometimes) where as Sherwood has had that luxury but I suspect could only pursue players on smaller wages. Both have been given almost crippling hands to play. So far both are having similar success...

For Sherwood; well he's definitely entertaining! He deserves praise for keeping us up and he deserves praise for getting us to the final. It's still early but his transfer dealings seem about average, with Gana, Traore and Amavi looking good, Richards and Veretout looking ok, Lescott, Gestede and Ayew not really doing it yet and then Llori, Crespo and Bunn being squad fillers. And before anyone says, I'm judging Gestede on his whole play so despite being very pleased with his goal return I actually still think he's a one trick pony who'll quickly be nullified as the league gets to know him.

Against Sherwood; well I suppose the transfers could go in here too! Was it wise to have such a big turnover? Why is he largely using players that were already here if he's convinced these players are improvements - Gabby is no.1 striker still, acceptable after having spent a third of funds on forward players? What the hell is going on with substitutions? Are there any tactics/ game plans or is it, as it sometimes feels like, just a ten year old boy playing manager and trying a team with ten attacking players and no defenders? Have we played well since FA Cup QF? Does he really believe what he says in interviews or is it just playing with the media? I'm worried 'banter' is more important than practice at Bodymoor Heath.

But, like I've said, it's all irrelevant. With Sherwood, without Sherwood, this team is being stripped down to the absolute bare essentiallys to survive in the Premier League. There is no ambition to do anything more. And if you keep pushing the limits you inevitably fall at some point. We're now in the relegation zone, I'll be surprised if we get out of it whatever happens with Marmite Tactics Nice But Dim Tim...

[Nabby]

I think you could put a case forward that we were so bad under Lambert that practically any half decent manager could of saved us ....perhaps with the addition that whilst saved we also had poor results still..

Now all that said I like Tim , well I (mostly ) like what he says but his recent team selections and tactic's have left me stumped.I also find it interesting that people are told be patient its only a few games into the season yet Tim himself has gone from Mr Positive  to we will do well do stay in the league in the same time ! Hard to stay positive when the manager himself is doubting the team and ultimately himself.

Lambert was binned when he hit the bottom 3 , if we stay around there Sherwood will be canned too ..there is too much money at stake for us to sit on our hands and whats more this is the strongest the league as the promoted teams are all doing ok and only Bournemouth mainly because of injuries are likely to collapse in the way QPR and Burnley to name 2 have in recent times.

[maqroll]

Thanks for the update

 

[ozvillafan]

Agreed. Probably aligned with number 5... worry definitely creeping in.

[1974Centenary]

Lambert got two and a half years with many on these boards backing him to the very end,sherwood should get at least that.

[useless]

We can't afford to be fair to Sherwood if it's to the detriment of the club. Most of all we've got to be fair to the team, What's fair to Sherwood in a footballing sense is trivial compared to the future of the club.

 

Edited September 29, 2015 by useless

[dudevillaisnice]

Lambert got two and a half years with many on these boards backing him to the very end,sherwood should get at least that.

err no. Problem is we kept Lambert far too long and he was given far too much time in the job, it's imperative we don't make the same mistake with a manager who has even less experience on his CV and is already making mind boggling decisions this early on and not learning from them. Whilst making the change might be too early I would hope they would at the very least sound out other candidates especially if we lose to Stoke. 

[hippo]

What are the real consequences of sacking him to early v giving him more time ?  - I really don't see what we gain by prolonging the agony - (other than we have less available managers to choose from when making the change)  

His recent record is woeful , sure the players he has purchased need time to find there feet - but they should at least be showing something. They don't appear to know what they are supposed to be doing. 

We are only making it worse by prolonging the agony - time to act in the best interests of Aston Villa  (and for Tom Fox to grow a pair)

[Stevo985]

Lambert got two and a half years with many on these boards backing him to the very end,sherwood should get at least that.

Nonsense.

Pretty much everyone agrees that Lambert got way longer than he should have.

Why should Sherwood get the same amount of time, regardless of how we're doing?
Surely we should be learning from keeping Lambert too long?

People need to get over Paul Lambert. He's gone. Stop comparing everything Tim does with Lambert. It's not a competition. Just because Lambert did something doesn't mean Tim has to do or not do the same thing. Just because Lambert got something doesn't mean Tim should get the same thing.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Stevo985

[ozvillafan]

err no. Problem is we kept Lambert far too long and he was given far too much time in the job, it's imperative we don't make the same mistake with a manager who has even less experience on his CV and is already making mind boggling decisions this early on and not learning from them. Whilst making the change might be too early I would hope they would at the very least sound out other candidates especially if we lose to Stoke. 

 

I'd agree with this apart from the "not learning from his mistakes" bit. It's too early to know that, imo. Especially when you factor in new backroom staff, an entirely new squad and his first ever window.

Don't get me wrong - I'm very concerned that he's not learning. I just can't tell if he is or not yet and would (at least!) give him till Christmas before the "concern" turns to "worry".

Edited September 29, 2015 by ozvillafan
removed unneeded nested quote

[villan501]

For me sherwood needs a consistent side to play and for me the choice of gil or traore with grealish gil wins everytime. Taking into acount everyone is fit this is the side i want to see imo its our best team.

                              Guzan

Hutton/crespo     richards   okore     amavi

                      Gana      sanchez

            Grealish       Veretout           gil

                        Gestede

Subs

Clark

Ayew

Traore

Sinclair

Bunn

Bacuna

Westwood

 

Sorry no gabby and westwood benched. Westwood always keeps busy but does lack quality for me gabby and westwood always seem undropable they are both not good enough dont see what sherwood sees in them    and lescott no place for him either.

I think most would like to see that team with sinclair traore and ayew to make impact from bench. Either way that is my side id play.       

 

                      

 

 

[Stevo985]

Westwood > Veretout

[Guest av1]

Westwood > Veretout

Not for me he isn't. I like Veretout a lot.