Our midfield problem

[Grasshopper]

12 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Jedinak can't do 10% of the work Gana does. Gana is a running machine, Jedinak plays like a centre back in midfield. 

The thing we need most is a player like Gana, someone who can do all the leg work that lets us get the best out of someone like Jedinak.

 

Maybe I should have been more specific.

I was refering to Gana's holding role play, he was everywhere in that 1st 30mins

The "everywhere" Jedi cant do. Bur the"holding" Jedi can do.

On 20/12/2016 at 15:07, Grasshopper said:

our shit MF's just covering space

was my next sentence

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

Maybe I should have been more specific.

I was refering to Gana's holding role play, he was everywhere in that 1st 30mins

The "everywhere" Jedi cant do. Bur the"holding" Jedi can do.

was my next sentence

Fair enough. Jedinak is very limited though, for me he's part of our midfield problem, not exempt from it. Our misfortune is that we have three midfielders who would all like to play at the base of a three, to have the game in front of them and not be the runner, Jedinak, Westwood and Gardner would all by nature want to do that job. Jedinak is best at it, but we desperately need people who can do the other two jobs in a modern three - the legs - the runner who can get forward and get back, the player who can chase the opposition out of it - and the passing player - the creative spark that Blandy talked about.

Toure - Fernando - Silva 

Coquelin - Xhaka - Ozil

Barry - Gueye - Barkley

Holder - Runner - Creator.

We have three holders in Jedinak, Westwood and Gardner. Tshibola who to me doesn't have as much running in him as a young player should and Bacuna who is a trier but a limited passer.

We need a runner (or two) to allow for Jedinak to be holder and then we can either get away with Grealish as creator or buy one.

For me, we've got a midfield with two roles no one can do and one role that three players aren't good enough for.

 

 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Fair enough. Jedinak is very limited though, for me he's part of our midfield problem, not exempt from it. Our misfortune is that we have three midfielders who would all like to play at the base of a three, to have the game in front of them and not be the runner, Jedinak, Westwood and Gardner would all by nature want to do that job. Jedinak is best at it, but we desperately need people who can do the other two jobs in a modern three - the legs - the runner who can get forward and get back, the player who can chase the opposition out of it - and the passing player - the creative spark that Blandy talked about.

Toure - Fernando - Silva 

Coquelin - Xhaka - Ozil

Barry - Gueye - Barkley

Holder - Runner - Creator.

We have three holders in Jedinak, Westwood and Gardner. Tshibola who to me doesn't have as much running in him as a young player should and Bacuna who is a trier but a limited passer.

We need a runner (or two) to allow for Jedinak to be holder and then we can either get away with Grealish as creator or buy one.

For me, we've got a midfield with two roles no one can do and one role that three players aren't good enough for.

 

 

For me despite his shortcomings Jedinak has the presence and stature for that role......Westwood doesn't.

some think that if you are not good enough to play the forward roles slip back where your flaws will not be so conspicuous....but its not that simple.....its a specialist role that requires specilaist skills i.e makalele to quote one of the best, despite him being slight....IMO Westwood or Gardner are not DM's

If you remember the great Liverpool played with 2 DM's Souness & Case.and relied on the wingers for creativity....but both could play a bit too.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

For me despite his shortcomings Jedinak has the presence and stature for that role......Westwood doesn't.

I agree - Jedinak is the best of our three for the position, but it is just on the basis of his size, for me Westwood is a better footballer - but when none of them are good enough, picking the biggest one is the best bet. 

 

[Grasshopper]

Westwood is NOT a DM

he cant tackle

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I agree - Jedinak is the best of our three for the position, but it is just on the basis of his size, for me Westwood is a better footballer - but when none of them are good enough, picking the biggest one is the best bet. 

 

Well the old saying goes a good big 'un will beat a good little 'un any day.

perhaps they hadn't factored in the coming of Messi......but very generally its true.

He is a better footballer ...........when there is no opponent close to him.

but i know what you mean.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TRO

[tinker]

We need 2 midfielders, both central , and a right back to stand a chance of promotion. If we get promotion we need another team . Judge Bruce after this transfer window. Watching Hull today Huddleston was exactly the type of player that could cement this team together, clever.

[Johnnyp]

Whilst forest are in a mess with the takeover we should look to get in Ben Osborn . A young midfielder with a footballing brain, can improve more. Very un villa signing truth be told.

[tismyk]

Jedinak without a beard would be slated on here, after his last 3 performances he should be dropped, has the odd good game but so overrated.

[philgetaway]

After a slow start Jedinak has been a good signing in my opinion. To simplify it, he's a defensive midfielder. In games where we need to defend he's been excellent (Blues, Cardiff etc)

Games when we're on the front foot (a lot of them in this league), we need footballers in the midfield. Unfortunately we haven't got any. 

Jedinak should be that 80th sub option at home to see out a game. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

9 hours ago, tismyk said:

Jedinak without a beard would be slated on here, after his last 3 performances he should be dropped

For who?

[mikeyp102]

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. They were happy to take the ball in tight spaces, had movement off the ball and then found a colleague in space. Ours got on the ball panicked and lost possession. For so many years our movement has been shocking. I'd be happy for Bruce to spend the entire Jan budget on 2/3 good midfielders rather than anywhere else on the pitch

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Barry Bannan is badly missed.

[KHV]

4 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. They were happy to take the ball in tight spaces, had movement off the ball and then found a colleague in space. Ours got on the ball panicked and lost possession. For so many years our movement has been shocking. I'd be happy for Bruce to spend the entire Jan budget on 2/3 good midfielders rather than anywhere else on the pitch

The only midfield player I would keep would be Bacuna. Jedinak, Westwwod, Gardner and Tshibola I would be happy to see the back of, they are all shit in their own way.

4 new midfielders in January and we won't go far wrong for the rest of the season

[Guest av1]

5 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

5 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

6 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

7 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

As I've quoted that 5 times, hopefully people will digest the point, and stop complaining about our style of play until Bruce can address the problem in January. 

 

One more time for good luck

12 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

All of Burtons midfield looked far more composed on the ball. 

 

[Stratvillan]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

For who?

That's the problem. We can make changes up front, and central defence. We can't make changes to our full backs or midfield. Dr t and brucie need to get the players in from jan1st. 

On a positive, we are climbing the table with the worst midfield in the division -imagine the difference a right back and 2 midfielders would make!

[lexicon]

I don't understand the criticism of Jedinak - he is not and never has been more than a midfield destroyer and I don't know why some are seemingly expecting more from him. I also find it weird that his role gets downplayed - you need someone to do the dirty work in midfield, you can't just leave all the defensive work to the defence because they'll get overrun and overwhelmed.

He is a hell of a presence and good at winning and clearing the ball and that's all he needs to be.

[Guest av1]

5 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I don't understand the criticism of Jedinak - he is not and never has been more than a midfield destroyer and I don't know why some are seemingly expecting more from him. I also find it weird that his role gets downplayed - you need someone to do the dirty work in midfield, you can't just leave all the defensive work to the defence because they'll get overrun and overwhelmed.

He is a hell of a presence and good at winning and clearing the ball and that's all he needs to be.

I think @OutByEaster post above (Wednesday) goes some way to explaining that. 

When you have clear structure and defined roles its easier to understand what each cog brings. The trouble is all of our midfielders want to occupy that deep lying postion, meaing there isn't any real structure. It also means that instead of winning the ball and then giving it to someone better, they are forced out of there comfort zone making them look even worse. 

I can see what Jedinak could bring in a proper midfield, (although the idea that a professional football player can't pass a ball more than 5 yards will always confuse me) but for the here and now, it just isn't working. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

6 minutes ago, av1 said:

I think @OutByEaster post above (Wednesday) goes some way to explaining that. 

When you have clear structure and defined roles its easier to understand what each cog brings. The trouble is all of our midfielders want to occupy that deep lying postion, meaing there isn't any real structure. It also means that instead of winning the ball and then giving it to someone better, they are forced out of there comfort zone making them look even worse. 

I can see what Jedinak could bring in a proper midfield, (although the idea that a professional football player can't pass a ball more than 5 yards will always confuse me) but for the here and now, it just isn't working. 

Which isn't really his fault. Gardner is supposed to be his legs, but he rarely shows for the ball and when he does he gives it away and Jedinak is straight back under pressure. 

He was poor yesterday regardless, but this is highlighted even more so by a non existent support network. Like our forward line, I can imagine he will slot in much better once we bring in a better partner for him, or 3. 

[sne]

 

Bacuna searching for a brain, Westwood searching for his courage, Gardner like a lost little girl and Jedinak with metal legs that doesn't bend.

No wonder our midfield sucks.