Woodytom Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 40 minutes ago, Richard said: we do not need error prone midfielders.... One of my favourite moments in football 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SidSidSidSid Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 12 hours ago, PaulC said: When he played the midfield really struggled like the Wolves game. We have been better since he's been left out. His time will come but for now he has to take a back seat "When he played." You're using probably his worst performance of the season to make a massive generalisation. If Wolves is the barometer there's any number of players who should be " takinga back seat." His introduction v Newcastle was a significant factor in us changing the course of the game. (and, no, not just because he scored.) In our solitary win under RDM he bossed the centre of the pitch.(yes, I know it was "only" Rotherham.) Short memory much!? I'm just hoping he's not been fully fit so SB's been saving him for The Big One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Our weakest area again today. Whilst Jedinak played well, the midfield was generally bypassed, putting the defensive under pressure and offering no support to our strikers. We really need a couple of good signings in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanwesty88 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Playing 3 in the middle has helped us though we still lack that burst of pace and someone to control the game. I felt like we missed Bacuna v Blues as he at least adds some energy in there. With Bacuna out for up to 3 weeks, we are a little short on midfield options. Tshibola and Lyden will surely get some game time now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 January can't come soon enough. Our midfield is diabolical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 It's horrendous. It's a bottom half championship midfield. Wish tshibola would be given another chance though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 3, 2016 Really need to replace Gardner and Westwood. It's desperate. Surely Tish should be given a run out? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted December 4, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2016 If you compare our midfield to our forward line, then our shortcomings become even clearer. Kodjia, Grealish, Ayew, Gestede, Adomah, Agbonlahor, McCormack, Hepburn-Murphy, Kozak and Green all have squad numbers and are all players that can feature in our front line. Bacuna, Westwood, Tshibola, Gardner, Jedinak, Lyden are the midfield equivalents. Now there's a case to be made to say that Grealish could belong in either group, and I can understand that but even if you remove him, there are nine options in the front line and six in the midfield. Bruce is right when he says we have too many strikers and I think we'll see Kozak leave in January - he's playing in all of our reserve games and is very much being put in the shop window. Without him, it's still eight up front and six in the middle. Amongst the two groups there are players that aren't currently legitimate first team options - Hepburn-Murphy and Green from the front line and Lyden from the middle - so in terms of actual first team option that you could pick, we have six forwards and five midfielders. That's a little more balanced isn't it? Kodjia, Ayew, Adomah, Gestede, Agbonlahor, McCormack are the six forwards we're talking about. Bacuna, Westwood, Tshibola, Gardner and Jedinak are the midfielders. Quality-wise, those two groups are a mile apart. Our front line features some of the most dangerous strikers in this division - our midfield doesn't have a single player that promotion rivals would be desperate to get their hands on. Our front line would be the stars of just about any team in the championship - our midfield would be the bench of most of the clubs in this division. Individually, (and here's where I suspect there'll be some disagreement) I think Westwood is the best of them (and that ought to be enough to tell you something) he can pass a ball, he's got some energy and he's got a good amount of experience. He's also got a big mistake in him, he struggles with confidence and he's not a player that can dominate physically or be a creative force. Jedinak is 32, he's big, experienced, very good in the air and a reassuring presence - but he's really poor on the ball, he's not got great mobility and with age he struggles to influence games in any role other than as a back four protector. He's essentially becoming a centre back in midfield. Useful enough for now, especially given our limitations, but he's a very limited footballer. Gardner is in the biggest season of his career - can he influence games and can he have an impact - he's not got great energy, he's not going to get from box to box and he's not a player that is going to use his running to change games. He's reasonable on the ball and at his best sitting in front of the back four with the game in front of him - it's notable that since Jedinak arrived, Gardner has struggled - Jedinak performs the role of limited midfielder better than he does - and when asked to perform a more expansive role, Gardner's limitations are exposed. What for me is a real problem with this three is that ideally, they'd all want to do the same job - they'd all want to be the mop-up man, with two hard running midfielders in front of them - when only one can do that job, the others struggle to impact games. Bacuna is a reasonable footballer, capable of being a decent right back and a passable central midfield player - the kind of player every team needs in their squad to rotate and keep players fit - a good bench option. Tshibola remains the wild card - he's another who isn't a midfielder that dominates through energy, although he has a bit more mobility than most of our group - he's strong and he's got some enthusiasm along with some ability on the ball, but he's raw and he looks to me like he occasionally needs a kick up the arse to keep him moving. I have a feeling that until he can show he wants to play for the reserves he's not going to get many opportunities to play for the first team. I"m also not sure that he's ultimately what the first team really needs at the moment in terms of style. Five midfield options - not one of them is a running midfielder; a Cleverley or a Gaye or a Boateng even - and none of them are particularly creative either - in fact, between them, their lack of mobility means that they're not good at keeping possession even - either because they're poor at passing the ball or because they aren't mobile enough to get into positions to receive it. Our goals tally is severely hampered by our inability to play through the middle, to have midfielders support the forwards, to have the ball played through the middle and create chances from around the box - our goals are long balls and individual moments of genius - which is nice - but a bit more cake to go with that icing will be required. In terms of our front line, in order to have a squad that is capable and likely to be promoted, I don't think we'd need to do a thing. In terms of our midfield, in order to have a squad that is capable and likely to be promoted, I think we need three players. I think we need legs, I think we need running, I think we need zest and zip and all those other nice words that express energy and creativity and control. I think we have to buy that in. It simply isn't there in the current group. There are areas elsewhere that can be strengthened, but nothing close to the need we have in the middle of the park in my opinion. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: If you compare our midfield to our forward line, then our shortcomings become even clearer. Kodjia, Grealish, Ayew, Gestede, Adomah, Agbonlahor, McCormack, Hepburn-Murphy, Kozak and Green all have squad numbers and are all players that can feature in our front line. Bacuna, Westwood, Tshibola, Gardner, Jedinak, Lyden are the midfield equivalents. Now there's a case to be made to say that Grealish could belong in either group, and I can understand that but even if you remove him, there are nine options in the front line and six in the midfield. Bruce is right when he says we have too many strikers and I think we'll see Kozak leave in January - he's playing in all of our reserve games and is very much being put in the shop window. Without him, it's still eight up front and six in the middle. Amongst the two groups there are players that aren't currently legitimate first team options - Hepburn-Murphy and Green from the front line and Lyden from the middle - so in terms of actual first team option that you could pick, we have six forwards and five midfielders. That's a little more balanced isn't it? Kodjia, Ayew, Adomah, Gestede, Agbonlahor, McCormack are the six forwards we're talking about. Bacuna, Westwood, Tshibola, Gardner and Jedinak are the midfielders. Quality-wise, those two groups are a mile apart. Our front line features some of the most dangerous strikers in this division - our midfield doesn't have a single player that promotion rivals would be desperate to get their hands on. Our front line would be the stars of just about any team in the championship - our midfield would be the bench of most of the clubs in this division. Individually, (and here's where I suspect there'll be some disagreement) I think Westwood is the best of them (and that ought to be enough to tell you something) he can pass a ball, he's got some energy and he's got a good amount of experience. He's also got a big mistake in him, he struggles with confidence and he's not a player that can dominate physically or be a creative force. Jedinak is 32, he's big, experienced, very good in the air and a reassuring presence - but he's really poor on the ball, he's not got great mobility and with age he struggles to influence games in any role other than as a back four protector. He's essentially becoming a centre back in midfield. Useful enough for now, especially given our limitations, but he's a very limited footballer. Gardner is in the biggest season of his career - can he influence games and can he have an impact - he's not got great energy, he's not going to get from box to box and he's not a player that is going to use his running to change games. He's reasonable on the ball and at his best sitting in front of the back four with the game in front of him - it's notable that since Jedinak arrived, Gardner has struggled - Jedinak performs the role of limited midfielder better than he does - and when asked to perform a more expansive role, Gardner's limitations are exposed. What for me is a real problem with this three is that ideally, they'd all want to do the same job - they'd all want to be the mop-up man, with two hard running midfielders in front of them - when only one can do that job, the others struggle to impact games. Bacuna is a reasonable footballer, capable of being a decent right back and a passable central midfield player - the kind of player every team needs in their squad to rotate and keep players fit - a good bench option. Tshibola remains the wild card - he's another who isn't a midfielder that dominates through energy, although he has a bit more mobility than most of our group - he's strong and he's got some enthusiasm along with some ability on the ball, but he's raw and he looks to me like he occasionally needs a kick up the arse to keep him moving. I have a feeling that until he can show he wants to play for the reserves he's not going to get many opportunities to play for the first team. I"m also not sure that he's ultimately what the first team really needs at the moment in terms of style. Five midfield options - not one of them is a running midfielder; a Cleverley or a Gaye or a Boateng even - and none of them are particularly creative either - in fact, between them, their lack of mobility means that they're not good at keeping possession even - either because they're poor at passing the ball or because they aren't mobile enough to get into positions to receive it. Our goals tally is severely hampered by our inability to play through the middle, to have midfielders support the forwards, to have the ball played through the middle and create chances from around the box - our goals are long balls and individual moments of genius - which is nice - but a bit more cake to go with that icing will be required. In terms of our front line, in order to have a squad that is capable and likely to be promoted, I don't think we'd need to do a thing. In terms of our midfield, in order to have a squad that is capable and likely to be promoted, I think we need three players. I think we need legs, I think we need running, I think we need zest and zip and all those other nice words that express energy and creativity and control. I think we have to buy that in. It simply isn't there in the current group. There are areas elsewhere that can be strengthened, but nothing close to the need we have in the middle of the park in my opinion. I agree with all of that, the midfield is the most pressing demand.....I would like to make a further observation and before I do don't misconstrue this as a moan because I am very pleased with Steve Bruce and the progress but. I also think our forwards lack aggression in one on one situations. Costa, Shearer, Andy Gray,.....blimey even Andy Lochead.....I could say Tevez,Aguero, but then folk would say oh you are only quoting the best.....I am not talking about their technique, I am talking about their ability to physically gain advantage to APPLY their technique. we have an abundance of strikers who on their day are very capable, but my worry is they can easily get negated by defensive muscle from the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Bacuna, Westwood, Tshibola, Gardner and Jedinak are the midfielders - our midfield would be the bench of most of the clubs in this division. Thats just not true. Gardner is arguably the weakest of our midfielders and he was first choice for Forest for much of last year. I'm not saying that our midfielders are as strong as our forwards but in my opinion they would get into the majority of Championship sides. We still need a couple with more quality in January but they are not as bad as you are painting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 4, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Thats just not true. Gardner is arguably the weakest of our midfielders and he was first choice for Forest for much of last year. I'm not saying that our midfielders are as strong as our forwards but in my opinion they would get into the majority of Championship sides. We still need a couple with more quality in January but they are not as bad as you are painting Well, that's difficult to argue against and perhaps the initial statement was a bit harsh. Personally I don't think they're good enough and I think if they played elsewhere they'd be the type of players we barely knew existed, but you're right, they'd get into Championship teams. I think we need more for two reasons - because of quality, but also and perhaps more importantly, because in a three man midfield all of the midfielders we have (with the exception of Bacuna) want to play at the base of the three - the position with least running - we have four holding midfielders and Bacuna - and I think we could do with four midfielders in the squad that aren't holding midfielders. At the moment, we're trying to get Westwood to do more than he's comfortable with, we've tried to get Gardner doing more, but it's not working - there's no support for the front players and no creativity and there's not enough energy when we haven't got the ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 how can we have a "our midfield problem"? We dont have a midfield 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Therefore it's a problem with our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 14 hours ago, VillaCas said: Thats just not true. Gardner is arguably the weakest of our midfielders and he was first choice for Forest for much of last year. I'm not saying that our midfielders are as strong as our forwards but in my opinion they would get into the majority of Championship sides. We still need a couple with more quality in January but they are not as bad as you are painting This, really - you're overestimating the quality in this division OBE. I generally agree with your appraisal of our midfield but I feel like you're also playing down the importance of Jedinak in the team. We really need some box to box dynamo though, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 9 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Therefore it's a problem with our midfield. ?????????? how can you have a "headache" when you dont have a head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Awful analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Awful analogy. I dont do an@l Edited December 5, 2016 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 21 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Our goals tally is severely hampered by our inability to play through the middle, to have midfielders support the forwards, to have the ball played through the middle and create chances from around the box - our goals are long balls and individual moments of genius - which is nice - but a bit more cake to go with that icing will be required. could not agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyavfc Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I still find it ridiculous that we loaned out Veretout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Grasshopper said: ?????????? how can you have a "headache" when you dont have a head? Sounds like a perfect case of head problem to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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