Hoof hearted Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Westwood is the type of player to play 'pretty awful' depending on the standard he's playing at. So in the Prem people might think 'ah okay, he's pretty awful, but he'll prob do okay in the championship'... And so on until you reach the Mr Porky Scratchings Midlands league north. This proper made me lol On topic, Westwood is shiza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2017 19 hours ago, DCJonah said: So Opta or grainy periscope footage filmed from the stands. Again I know which one seems more respectable and reliable. I'm happy to admit it might be a mistake, I'm not convinced it is but it's clearly those who have defended him in the past jumping to make out it's a bullshit statistic. FWIW Whoscored.com has now been updated. Now it says Westwood touched it 30 times and Gardner 41 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Woodytom Posted January 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2017 8 hours ago, VillaJ100 said: Westwood is the type of player to play 'pretty awful' depending on the standard he's playing at. So in the Prem people might think 'ah okay, he's pretty awful, but he'll prob do okay in the championship'... And so on until you reach the Mr Porky Scratchings Midlands league north. While there is an element of sarcasm to your post I don't think it's too far the truth and it relates to something I've been saying since he arrived imo. Never once does he stand up and be counted/take the game by the scruff of his neck. I think he has a bit of a 'need to avoid failure' attitude that will be ever present regardless of what league he is in. At first people explained his anonymity as the type of midfielder he is, some even used it as a criticism of people's knowledge on football. No, not noticing Westwood is purely and simply down to him being way out of his depth. He will never impose himself on the game due to his mentality imo, and that is why I believe that any game at any level worth talking about, he would get gobbled up. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2017 I agree he has that mentality now. But I really don't think that was always the case. He looked a much more confident player when he first joined us and settled in. Contrary to what you and others will say, he did have a couple of decent seasons here. But he's reacted badly to his drop in performances and it's spiralled into ever decreasing levels of performance. He'll never recover here. I think there's a chance the guy could improve a certain amount, but it won't be with Villa. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 31 minutes ago, Woodytom said: While there is an element of sarcasm to your post I don't think it's too far the truth and it relates to something I've been saying since he arrived imo. Never once does he stand up and be counted/take the game by the scruff of his neck. I think he has a bit of a 'need to avoid failure' attitude that will be ever present regardless of what league he is in. At first people explained his anonymity as the type of midfielder he is, some even used it as a criticism of people's knowledge on football. No, not noticing Westwood is purely and simply down to him being way out of his depth. He will never impose himself on the game due to his mentality imo, and that is why I believe that any game at any level worth talking about, he would get gobbled up. He's footballs equivilent of the shit co-worker we all know and have to deal with. He turns up smart enough to look like he may be the part, is a nice guy, always say yes, is polite, has the qualifications to do the job and everyone thought "great, we gor a guddun 'er" As it turns out, he always looks busy, but when the pressures on and the workplace has to get going, he's nowhere to be found and is out shopping getting batteries for the firealarms. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I agree he has that mentality now. But I really don't think that was always the case. He looked a much more confident player when he first joined us and settled in. Contrary to what you and others will say, he did have a couple of decent seasons here. But he's reacted badly to his drop in performances and it's spiralled into ever decreasing levels of performance. He'll never recover here. I think there's a chance the guy could improve a certain amount, but it won't be with Villa. Agreed. Like with a manager, if you're doing a bad job for a while and the fans turn it's very difficult to get them back onside, which makes it increasingly difficult to perform. It's best for everyone involved if he left and I don't buy in to the idea that he's just an awful player. Multiple managers have used him regularly, but it takes a very strong character to perform for Villa over the past few years and he doesn't have that in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I agree he has that mentality now. But I really don't think that was always the case. He looked a much more confident player when he first joined us and settled in. Contrary to what you and others will say, he did have a couple of decent seasons here. But he's reacted badly to his drop in performances and it's spiralled into ever decreasing levels of performance. He'll never recover here. I think there's a chance the guy could improve a certain amount, but it won't be with Villa. 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I agree he has that mentality now. But I really don't think that was always the case. He looked a much more confident player when he first joined us and settled in. Contrary to what you and others will say, he did have a couple of decent seasons here. But he's reacted badly to his drop in performances and it's spiralled into ever decreasing levels of performance. He'll never recover here. I think there's a chance the guy could improve a certain amount, but it won't be with Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Agreed, Westwood will not rejuvenate his career with us and I think it's best that we part ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Grasshopper said: He's footballs equivilent of the shit co-worker we all know and have to deal with. He turns up smart enough to look like he may be the part, is a nice guy, always say yes, is polite, has the qualifications to do the job and everyone thought "great, we gor a guddun 'er" As it turns out, he always looks busy, but when the pressures on and the workplace has to get going, he's nowhere to be found and is out shopping getting batteries for the firealarms. I think i may be that co worker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: He looked a much more confident player when he first joined us and settled in. Contrary to what you and others will say, he did have a couple of decent seasons here. Yeah I disagree. I think it's fair to say that for periods of time during a couple of seasons he played well. I would say during Tim's revolution and around the time we went to Stoke and won 3-1. I think that was about the time he played a great ball to gabby v Norwich? That said, those periods of time coincided with an upturn in form for the whole team particularly the sherwood example where Delph and cleverly were excellent and subsequently earned moves to better clubs. I don't think there has ever been a time where, Westwood alone (or at least as part of a few players) has been a stand out performer for a group of games. It was always Delph, benteke, vlaar, dragging us out the shit when the rest of the team were garbage. So I kind of put any decent form of Westwood down to the overall form of the team which only supports the belief that due to his limits, he heavily relies on those around him.... and always has imo. Edited January 4, 2017 by Woodytom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Woodytom said: Yeah I disagree. I think it's fair to say that for periods of time during a couple of seasons he played well. I would say during Tim's revolution and around the time we went to Stoke and won 3-1. I think that was about the time he played a great ball to gabby v Norwich? That said, those periods of time coincided with an upturn in for for the whole team particularly the sherwood example where Delph and cleverly were excellent and subsequently earned moves to better clubs. I don't think there has ever been a time where, Westwood alone (or at least as part of a few players) has been a stand out performer for a group of games. It was always Delph, benteke, vlaar, dragging us our the shit when the rest of the team were garbage. So I kind of put any decent form of Westwood down to the overall form of the team which only supports the belief that due to his limits, he heavily relies on those around him.... and always has imo. I don't think you have disagreed with me to be honest. I and others have long said that Westwood's form has basically mirrored Villa's. For a time under Lambert he was decent and promising, then went downhill, had a brief resurgence under Sherwood and has slid ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't think you have disagreed with me to be honest. I and others have long said that Westwood's form has basically mirrored Villa's. For a time under Lambert he was decent and promising, then went downhill, had a brief resurgence under Sherwood and has slid ever since. Well I suppose the part I disagree with is you saying he had a couple of 'seasons'. I took that as he spent the whole year playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 4, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Well I suppose the part I disagree with is you saying he had a couple of 'seasons'. I took that as he spent the whole year playing well. Well very few players play well for a whole season. Benteke had some crap games but you'd still look back on a season and say "he was very good that season" For Westwood he had a season or two where I think he was "decent". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Football is about partnerships. Look at how good Baker looks alongside Chester. For some reason Gardner and Westwood can't play together. Neither is very good but together they seem awful. Gardner still seems to be playing within himself and may need a move to have a chance. Westwood initially looked a tidy footballer but now seems shot so the same goes for him. I'd be looking at getting 2/3 CM in. Jedinak can't be expected to carry us. If he doesn't play we should play 3 in there until we get better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 7 hours ago, Grasshopper said: He's footballs equivilent of the shit co-worker we all know and have to deal with. He turns up smart enough to look like he may be the part, is a nice guy, always say yes, is polite, has the qualifications to do the job and everyone thought "great, we gor a guddun 'er" As it turns out, he always looks busy, but when the pressures on and the workplace has to get going, he's nowhere to be found and is out shopping getting batteries for the firealarms. your analogies are as bad as mine.....or good depending on the recipients opinion. but more importantly.....I get your point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 54 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Football is about partnerships. Look at how good Baker looks alongside Chester. For some reason Gardner and Westwood can't play together. Neither is very good but together they seem awful. Gardner still seems to be playing within himself and may need a move to have a chance. Westwood initially looked a tidy footballer but now seems shot so the same goes for him. I'd be looking at getting 2/3 CM in. Jedinak can't be expected to carry us. If he doesn't play we should play 3 in there until we get better players. Ha Ha my little chesnut. spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, TRO said: your analogies are as bad as mine.....or good depending on the recipients opinion. but more importantly.....I get your point. @TRO We are only good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Well very few players play well for a whole season. Benteke had some crap games but you'd still look back on a season and say "he was very good that season" For Westwood he had a season or two where I think he was "decent". I loved Bentekes goals, like the next man......but I was under no illusions of the players abilities.....good and bad.....and it was interesting which bits anyone wanted to comment on.....just the good, I guess. It does not surprise me in the least what Klopp saw....Because I seen it too....but the guy kept us up.....much in the same way as Kodjia is carrying us now and he is not without his flaws......so I guess it is difficult to have a balanced analytical debate, under such circumstances as a player is carrying you. but,You are quite right, there are very few players like Paul McGrath....who's performance you could hang your hat on. Westwood has always been Westwood for me, but I do agree he was better than he is now.....However, when you suffer the problems he does, by being physically beaten to most duels it eventually will take its toll.......and it has in my view. You can only be out of your depth for so long and your will eventually be found out. sad for the lad really. I'm not an expert on these things, but my advice to him would have been get in that gym, baulk up and give em back what they give you son. Edited January 4, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 03/01/2017 at 17:32, DCJonah said: Opta have a very strong reputation on football statistics. Their reputation has slipped considerably over the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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