Things You Don't "Get"

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

On the same day Dale Creegan was in court for luring 2 female police officers to his house with a fake burglary call, then shot them on the doorstep and threw a grenade at them for good measure. Who were these ladies innocently killed in the line of duty? Nobody knows or remembers. 

There’s many tragic and brutal murders sadly, but they don’t seem to have a heroic victim quite like Lee. That’s what I don’t get. 

I guess like with most things, it’s the way it was presented by the media which resonates with people.

Definitely true that the Cregan story was also pretty lurid, but the people responding to you saying well Lee Rigby was filmed have a point.

However, I don't think it's that much of a point - I don't remember seeing the video, and presumably it was barely used or very censored when doing so on TV. Sadly I think the real answer is that Dale Cregan was a white male gangster, and Lee Rigby's killers were two black Muslims, and let's be honest, a lot of the pages and accounts that keep going back to the Rigby killing (that I've seen anyway) are coming from a political perspective where they are more than happy to highlight evil acts committed by black Muslims.

[rjw63]

17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't get people that post in the Grealish thread but complain about other people posting in the Grealish thread  

[bobzy]

19 hours ago, Genie said:

The Lee Rigby stuff.

What is it about his death that differentiates it from others?

Killed by Muslims. 

[sidcow]

47 minutes ago, BOF said:

Not in these specific cases but we (as in the general population) are very easy to manipulate if they want everyone up in arms about something or if they want something to disappear without a whimper.

I'm in hot water on another thread about press reporting on HS2 cancellation but this is really my point. 

I don't think I've seen a single report across any news platform which hasn't opened up with the word "controversial" in their description of it.  Literally every report every time.  

So it becomes controversial merely because it's been constantly reinforced as such. 

Yet crossrail which is just ludicrously over budget and ridiculously behind timescale is never described as controversial.  Probably because it exclusively serves London so the press are going to be all for it. Their reports are more the annoyance at the delay and outrage at the cost, but they would never open their report stating the railway is controversial. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by sidcow

[The Fun Factory]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm in hot water on another thread about press reporting on HS2 cancellation but this is really my point. 

I don't think I've seen a single report across any news platform what hasn't opened up with the word "controversial" in their description of it.  Literally every report every time.  

So it becomes controversial merely because it's been constantly reinforced as such. 

Yet crossrail which is just ludicrously over budget and ridiculously behind timescale is never described as controversial.  Probably because it exclusively serves London so the press are going to be all for it. Their reports are more the annoyance at the delay and outrage at the cost, but they would never open their report stating the railway is controversial. 

Yes 100%. Most western European countries have high speed lines- where they all controversial as well? The main difference is that we have a higher population density than most of these countries and high property ownership (at least in rich rural areas) which had lead to a huge amount of nimby groups for the last 15 years on this matter.  Now we are going to end up with a half-arsed high speed system which will not be fit for purpose for the reason it was proposed for.

Also crossrail  will finally be open just when the population of London is either decreasing or certainly levelling off.

Edited November 18, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[sidcow]

9 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Yes 100%. Most western European countries have high speed lines- where they all controversial as well? The main difference is that we have a higher population density than most of these countries and high property ownership (at least in rich rural areas) which had lead to a huge amount of nimby groups for the last 15 years on this matter.  Now we are going to end up with a half-arsed high speed system which will not be fit for purpose for the reason it was proposed for.

Yes, most other countries would build the full HS2 lines, and actually all the way up to Scotland AND invest in the local schemes they're now doing instead.  Both are needed. 

We're looking like a backwards nation again.  We've got one or the largest economies in the world yet other poorer nations have no trouble building hundreds of miles of high speed railway, multiples of what we're going to end up with. 

People should be travelling on quick electric trains from London to Edinburgh, not flying in polluting aircraft.

It's just ludicrous but again and again if transport isn't within London they're not funding jack shit. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by sidcow

[Anthony]

17 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm in hot water on another thread about press reporting on HS2 cancellation but this is really my point. 

I don't think I've seen a single report across any news platform what hasn't opened up with the word "controversial" in their description of it.  Literally every report every time.  

So it becomes controversial merely because it's been constantly reinforced as such. 

Yet crossrail which is just ludicrously over budget and ridiculously behind timescale is never described as controversial.  Probably because it exclusively serves London so the press are going to be all for it. Their reports are more the annoyance at the delay and outrage at the cost, but they would never open their report stating the railway is controversial. 

Well, HS2 has had all kinds of protest up and down the route of the line, so I think calling it controversial is, in this case, fair. More often though, something is billed as 'controversial' just to increase traffic/clicks/eyeballs.

Crossrail, by the same yardstick isn't controversial.

The comment about London I shall ignore.

[Anthony]

6 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes, most other countries would build the full HS2 lines, and actually all the way up to Scotland AND invest in the local schemes they're now doing instead.  Both are needed. 

We're looking like a backwards nation again.  We've got one or the largest economies in the world yet other poorer nations have no trouble building hundreds of miles of high speed railway, multiples of what we're going to end up with. 

People should be travelling on quick electric trains from London to Edinburgh, not flying in polluting aircraft.

It's just ludicrous but again and again if transport isn't within London they're not funding jack shit. 

Strong agree on all of this.

Apart from the London bit.

[The Fun Factory]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes, most other countries would build the full HS2 lines, and actually all the way up to Scotland AND invest in the local schemes they're now doing instead.  Both are needed. 

We're looking like a backwards nation again.  We've got one or the largest economies in the world yet other poorer nations have no trouble building hundreds of miles of high speed railway, multiples of what we're going to end up with. 

People should be travelling on quick electric trains from London to Edinburgh, not flying in polluting aircraft.

It's just ludicrous but again and again if transport isn't within London they're not funding jack shit. 

Tfl will be in big trouble soon when the funding from central government ends in December. They will have to cut services as  a lot of people are still not going back to the office.

I believe they have just launched a new low cost london to edinburgh train service?

Edited November 18, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[sidcow]

Just now, The Fun Factory said:

Tfl will be in big trouble soon when the funding from central government ends in December. They will have to cut services as  a lot of people are still not going back to the office.

I've noticed trains in Brum getting busier and busier.  I've now twice had to use the overflow car park.  When I started going back in I had a carriage almost to myself, now I've got to start searching for a seat. 

Trains on the way home have people standing now. 

I just had a call with a London colleague earlier and was suprised that they are actually in 4 days a week now. 

We're still currently smack in the middle of this pandemic. I think things will get more back to normal than people think in say 2 years. 

[chrisp65]

7 hours ago, blandy said:

I’ve seen some outrageous claims made, over the years, but this one! Whut?

I’m not one to spend two days defending the indefensible just for the sake of it, so I’ll concede this well observed point.

[bobzy]

7 hours ago, sidcow said:

I've noticed trains in Brum getting busier and busier.  I've now twice had to use the overflow car park.  When I started going back in I had a carriage almost to myself, now I've got to start searching for a seat. 

Trains on the way home have people standing now. 

I just had a call with a London colleague earlier and was suprised that they are actually in 4 days a week now. 

We're still currently smack in the middle of this pandemic. I think things will get more back to normal than people think in say 2 years. 

...meanwhile in Nottingham, I'll be in the office tomorrow with about 30 other people in total.  We had about 600 in pre-March 2020  

[Xela]

On 18/11/2021 at 11:43, Genie said:

On the same day Dale Creegan was in court for luring 2 female police officers to his house with a fake burglary call, then shot them on the doorstep and threw a grenade at them for good measure. Who were these ladies innocently killed in the line of duty? Nobody knows or remembers. 

There’s many tragic and brutal murders sadly, but they don’t seem to have a heroic victim quite like Lee. That’s what I don’t get. 

I guess like with most things, it’s the way it was presented by the media which resonates with people.

People remember Cregan's name because he was memorable with the one eye but not the name of Lee Ribgy's killers. Some things just stick don't they. As @Mark Albrighton said, Raul Moat is well know but Derick Bird? Less so. Do people remember the name of the Hungerford killer? The Dunblane killer? Why did the murder of 3 low level Essex drug dealers in a Range Rover, 25 years or so ago, attract such attention, even to this day, with multiple films about them?

I think with Rigby - it was a perfect storm - young soldier, Islamic terror attack, attempted beheading, videoed, etc. People remember Ken Bigley because of the manner of his death as well. 

[Xela]

22 hours ago, sidcow said:

I've noticed trains in Brum getting busier and busier.  I've now twice had to use the overflow car park.  When I started going back in I had a carriage almost to myself, now I've got to start searching for a seat. 

Trains on the way home have people standing now. 

Trains are definitely getting busier into Brum on the x-city line. I've not been in this week, but over previous weeks it has been noticeable. 

[sidcow]

38 minutes ago, Xela said:

Trains are definitely getting busier into Brum on the x-city line. I've not been in this week, but over previous weeks it has been noticeable. 

Like I said earlier, we're still right in the middle of this.  In 2 years time I don't think it will be all that different to what is was before the pandemic.

I've not even gone in on a Wednesday yet  which I understand is the busiest day because the Mon/Tues/Weds people overlap with the Weds/Thurs Fri people.

Our company, my office aside, intends to everyone to be back 5 days a week eventually and some are already in 4 days.

[BOF]

21 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I’m not one to spend two days defending the indefensible just for the sake of it, so I’ll concede this well observed point.

Well that's not the VT way and you know it.

[bobzy]

Not sure this goes here really as appreciate this thread is for flippant "gets", but I really struggle to understand how anyone could harm a baby/toddler.  Just unimaginably cruel.  I'm very much not in favour of the death sentence, but whoever did the damage caused as per below article (sounds like mother and her partner) should really be killed off.  They bring nothing.

 

"A toddler died from "utterly catastrophic injuries" after repeated assaults by her mother and her mother's partner, a court has heard.

Sixteen-month-old Star Hobson suffered a cardiac arrest and died in hospital on 22 September 2020.

Her mother Frankie Smith, 20, and Savannah Brockhill, 28, both from Keighley, West Yorkshire, deny murder.

The child had been either punched, kicked or stamped on, Bradford Crown Court heard on Wednesday.

Opening the trial, prosecutor Alistair MacDonald said she "suffered a number of significant injuries at different times", including fractures to the back of the head and right shin, with the latter "caused by forceful twisting".

"Star had been repeatedly physically assaulted over the weeks and months before her death," he said.

She was found "apparently lifeless, pale" and wearing only a nappy when paramedics arrived at the couple's flat on Wesley Place after a 999 call made by one of the defendants, Mr MacDonald said.

(Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58980432)

 

Just HOW.

[Xela]

17 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Just HOW.

There seems to be more and more reports of this evil act happening as well. 

Baby P was a well known horrific case and made the national headlines due to the rarity of such a case at the time but i'm sure I've heard of multiple similar cases in the last year or two? 

 

[sidcow]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Not sure this goes here really as appreciate this thread is for flippant "gets", but I really struggle to understand how anyone could harm a baby/toddler.  Just unimaginably cruel.  I'm very much not in favour of the death sentence, but whoever did the damage caused as per below article (sounds like mother and her partner) should really be killed off.  They bring nothing.

 

"A toddler died from "utterly catastrophic injuries" after repeated assaults by her mother and her mother's partner, a court has heard.

Sixteen-month-old Star Hobson suffered a cardiac arrest and died in hospital on 22 September 2020.

Her mother Frankie Smith, 20, and Savannah Brockhill, 28, both from Keighley, West Yorkshire, deny murder.

The child had been either punched, kicked or stamped on, Bradford Crown Court heard on Wednesday.

Opening the trial, prosecutor Alistair MacDonald said she "suffered a number of significant injuries at different times", including fractures to the back of the head and right shin, with the latter "caused by forceful twisting".

"Star had been repeatedly physically assaulted over the weeks and months before her death," he said.

She was found "apparently lifeless, pale" and wearing only a nappy when paramedics arrived at the couple's flat on Wesley Place after a 999 call made by one of the defendants, Mr MacDonald said.

(Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58980432)

 

Just HOW.

Yeah, this kid from Shirley who's been top story on Birmingham Live for every day of the trial is so sad.  They clearly made his life complete hell before finally taking it from him. It's just inhuman, completely evil. 

[bickster]

On 19/11/2021 at 14:07, sidcow said:

I've not even gone in on a Wednesday yet  which I understand is the busiest day because the Mon/Tues/Weds people overlap with the Weds/Thurs Fri people.

You appear to have missed out the Tuesday Wednesday And Thusday people in your calculation