Ulver Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Has he gone yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 22, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2014 On Jan 21 2012, we were 17th having played 23 games for a total of 20 points. So 0.87 points a game. So last season we were shockingly poor for the first 23 games, this season we have just been very poor. Can't really see that there is any reason for much celebration at all about this season's improvement. Quiet relief perhaps, yes, but to use phrases like "markedly better" is just OTT. "Markedly better" isn't exactly dancing naked on the rooftops though is it? I'm not celebrating, I think we have been playing below our capabilities so far this season. All I was doing is being curious as to how the points average last season before the upturn in form compared to this season. I think the numbers speak for themselves. I'm not about to start celebrating, far from it, however a 20% improvement in whatever you want to talk about isn't insignificant and is demonstrably better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The number of teams below us does matter, even though we're not that far, pointswise, away from the bottom. For us to relegated we have to do worse from here to the end of the season than 8 teams below us.That's a lot. In the same way as Man United are 14 points off the title. If there was nobody between Arsenal and them, then you'd say maybe they have a slight chance. But for them to win, they have to catch Arsenal AND do (significantly) better than the other 5 teams above Man United in the league. The same applies to us.What about the points though? Man Yoo have more points to make up, whilst we’re only 6 points off the bottom 3?Regarding Lambert he should still be here imo, all manager have ups and downs. You can look across VT over the years and seen more than a few people wanting Fat Sam. We’re wading through plenty of shit at the moment hopefully to come through the other side clean and doing well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edit - I also vividly recall you arguing the opposite in favour of O'Neill BJ10. How about some consistency? Look, we've not been great this season, not by a long chalk. But to deny improvement is ridiculous IMO. Whether it is enough , as per Morpheus's opinion, is debateable. Argued what in favour of MON? I'm not denying that we've had a better Xmas period and better 24 games than the first last year. But overall last year we average 1.07 points per game. While we've had a better start there's nothing to guarantee we'll have a better finish than last year. We're still on course to finish on about the same points as last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 On Jan 21 2012, we were 17th having played 23 games for a total of 20 points. So 0.87 points a game. So last season we were shockingly poor for the first 23 games, this season we have just been very poor. Can't really see that there is any reason for much celebration at all about this season's improvement. Quiet relief perhaps, yes, but to use phrases like "markedly better" is just OTT. I think you may need to look up the word "markedly" in the dictionary. A simple google will suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edit - I also vividly recall you arguing the opposite in favour of O'Neill BJ10. How about some consistency? Look, we've not been great this season, not by a long chalk. But to deny improvement is ridiculous IMO. Whether it is enough , as per Morpheus's opinion, is debateable. Argued what in favour of MON? I'm not denying that we've had a better Xmas period and better 24 games than the first last year. But overall last year we average 1.07 points per game. While we've had a better start there's nothing to guarantee we'll have a better finish than last year. We're still on course to finish on about the same points as last year. That we were improving year on year and that it was enough. I argued the same (before I had a better idea on the financial hole we were in). You were right to do so in my opinion. What is different this time around? We are indeed on course to finish on the same points. However if you tie this in with a clear improvement in performance of late it's not a stretch to imagine us sailing past that mark. Stats alone are not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 To be clear for briny... 1.09 > 0.87 And 10th > 17th Marked improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Edit - I also vividly recall you arguing the opposite in favour of O'Neill BJ10. How about some consistency? Look, we've not been great this season, not by a long chalk. But to deny improvement is ridiculous IMO. Whether it is enough , as per Morpheus's opinion, is debateable.Argued what in favour of MON? I'm not denying that we've had a better Xmas period and better 24 games than the first last year. But overall last year we average 1.07 points per game. While we've had a better start there's nothing to guarantee we'll have a better finish than last year. We're still on course to finish on about the same points as last year. That we were improving year on year and that it was enough. I argued the same (before I had a better idea on the financial hole we were in). You were right to do so in my opinion. What is different this time around? We are indeed on course to finish on the same points. However if you tie this in with a clear improvement in performance of late it's not a stretch to imagine us sailing past that mark. Stats alone are not enough. I fully acknowledge the improvement in defence and in terms of where we were last season at this point. If we have a finish like last season then like I said previously there will be no comparison needed to last year. We will be well ahead. But that may not happen and we may end up with a similar points total to last season, which is what we're currently on course to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 29 goals against to 44 is also a rapid improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're quite obviously improving. People are just being negative for the sake of being negative. Sometimes I think it's just to save face. If they're negative and we turn out to do crap, they "win". If they're negative about stuff that may/may not happen in the future they "can't be wrong". That said, I have no idea why you wouldn't want to look at the positives when supporting a team - it baffles me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 22, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2014 The number of teams below us does matter, even though we're not that far, pointswise, away from the bottom. For us to relegated we have to do worse from here to the end of the season than 8 teams below us. That's a lot. In the same way as Man United are 14 points off the title. If there was nobody between Arsenal and them, then you'd say maybe they have a slight chance. But for them to win, they have to catch Arsenal AND do (significantly) better than the other 5 teams above Man United in the league. The same applies to us. What about the points though? Man Yoo have more points to make up, whilst we’re only 6 points off the bottom 3? You've massively missed the point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 He was also the manager in our terrible start to last season and our poor performances this season where tactical deficiencies cost us points and games. You cannot just blame injuries and inexperience on inconsistency or has one good performance left you with blinkers on again? This is getting tired but thankfully you're becoming something of a lone voice now You seem bizarrely keen to regurgitate and hold on to supposed problems from last season - Our start to last season might have had something to do with taking over a side which had won only 3 of their last 23 matches - it might be that Lambert has had to remove players that cost us more than £80m and replace them with players that cost half that - it might be that once we could afford pay players £65k a week and now we are looking to pay only a fraction of that - it might be that there was a poisionous and negative culture around the club when Lambert took over which needed drastic surgery to address In my opinion, 99% of managers would have run a mile but Lambert embraced the challenge, backing himself to build something substantial and sustainable for the future Whilst Lambert, like anyone, is not immune to making mistakes, your assertions of glaring tactical errors is laughable - firstly in that you have the hubris to imagine that whilst Lambert is niave and tactically incompetent, you on the other hand are an expert and have a razor sharp vision of what is required. Secondly, whilst filtering everything through your 20/20 hindsight goggles, you seem totally oblivious to the possibility that Lambert and his coaches might have access to facts and circumstances which effect decisions to which you are absolutely and totally unaware. We were a club in crisis when Lambert took over......he said from day one that this would not be a quick fix. He is building something really positive and whilst we struggled at the start of last season, we are clearly and absolutely in a better place this season. This doesnt mean that I expect us to continue to rise up the league without incident...I'm sure there are many twists and turns to come, but as long as I feel that the trend is a positive one, I will be 100% behind Lambert VillaCas I don't know whether you are a Beatles fan or not but if not please Google the lyrics to 'A Day in the Life.' There is a very famous lyric within that song which describes your above post perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 22, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're quite obviously improving. People are just being negative for the sake of being negative. Sometimes I think it's just to save face. If they're negative and we turn out to do crap, they "win". If they're negative about stuff that may/may not happen in the future they "can't be wrong". That said, I have no idea why you wouldn't want to look at the positives when supporting a team - it baffles me. I'm not convinced it's that black and white. I think we are improving - but I still see some really worrying signs in some of our performances. And (as BJ10 has already mentioned) we are doing well so far but are on course for the same points total unless we replicate the run to the finish we had last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The number of teams below us does matter, even though we're not that far, pointswise, away from the bottom. For us to relegated we have to do worse from here to the end of the season than 8 teams below us. That's a lot. In the same way as Man United are 14 points off the title. If there was nobody between Arsenal and them, then you'd say maybe they have a slight chance. But for them to win, they have to catch Arsenal AND do (significantly) better than the other 5 teams above Man United in the league. The same applies to us. Good point, from a probability perspective the more teams that need to outperform you in order for you to get relegated makes a big difference to the likelihood of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're closer to the bottom than we are to 9th place. I think its premature to say we're not in a relegation battle. Last season we averaged 1.07 points a game. So far we currently average 1.09 points a game. Have we improved lots or is it more to do with more teams performing worse this year? No.....it would be premature to say we won't be in a relegation battle but it's not premature to say that we are not in one now The "are we better, or are other teams worse?" debate is pointless - league position is all that matters and we are doing much better this season This of course is wholly based on our worst start ever to a Premiership campaign last season which would take very little to improve upon it. However with a current record of losing six in nine and no wins at home in the last six our improvement has been marginal or have you now a bee in your bonnet due one good performance against Liverpool where we lost a two goal lead and ended up drawing the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're quite obviously improving. People are just being negative for the sake of being negative. Sometimes I think it's just to save face. If they're negative and we turn out to do crap, they "win". If they're negative about stuff that may/may not happen in the future they "can't be wrong". That said, I have no idea why you wouldn't want to look at the positives when supporting a team - it baffles me. Wrong on both counts but at least you've stopped referring to criticism of Lambert as moaning which is an improvement. If people were being negative for the sake of being negative then they wouldn't be able to substantiate their opinion with prevalent stats or actually just commenting on what they have seen before their eyes. If we had been playing consistently good football and achieving consistently good results and not being on a wretched run of form losing six in nine then you could state the above with confidence. As it is your just talking bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskitt Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have been quite frustrated with villa this season so can see both sides to the arguments but bit by bit, I can see Lambert is addressing the weak points in our team The defensive record is far better than last season as Zatman posted above despite a number of injuries. We have also only lost 4 points from winning positions all season which is the best in the league. Like our defensive problems, this was another of our Achilles heels last season. Lambert has also addressed the left back issue ( admittedly which was of his own making but we haven't had a decent left back in donkey's years ) and he's also looking to address the number 10 issue, all whilst clearly being financially restricted. I appreciate some of the performances have not been easy on the eye but I can at least see what we're trying to do as a club now long term. It may take a bit longer to get there than most of us would like but at least there's some direction. UTV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 While the last 135 minutes of football have been good I don't think it wipes everything else out. We still average less than a point per game over our last 10. We still were knocked out by a lower league team in the cup, we still are far too high in the tables for long balls and far too low for possession. I need to see more consistency with performances and results before I'm convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) We're closer to the bottom than we are to 9th place. I think its premature to say we're not in a relegation battle. Last season we averaged 1.07 points a game. So far we currently average 1.09 points a game. Have we improved lots or is it more to do with more teams performing worse this year? No.....it would be premature to say we won't be in a relegation battle but it's not premature to say that we are not in one now The "are we better, or are other teams worse?" debate is pointless - league position is all that matters and we are doing much better this season This of course is wholly based on our worst start ever to a Premiership campaign last season which would take very little to improve upon it. However with a current record of losing six in nine and no wins at home in the last six our improvement has been marginal or have you now a bee in your bonnet due one good performance against Liverpool where we lost a two goal lead and ended up drawing the game? Which in turn was based on Lambert inheriting a shambles of overpaid and underenthusatic wasters - or perhaps you thought that this was a recipe for our best ever start? If we finish 10th-12th then Lambert has done brilliantly well in my opinion and hopefully will be backed by Lerner to take us well into the top half next season By the way my enthusiam for Lambert has been unstinting and not based solely on the Liverpool result Finally as you seem to be a beatles fan I've got an apposite lyrics for you - try Strawberry Fields Forever "Living is easy with eyes closed, Misunderstanding all you see" Edited January 22, 2014 by VillaCas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We're quite obviously improving. People are just being negative for the sake of being negative. Sometimes I think it's just to save face. If they're negative and we turn out to do crap, they "win". If they're negative about stuff that may/may not happen in the future they "can't be wrong". That said, I have no idea why you wouldn't want to look at the positives when supporting a team - it baffles me. Wrong on both counts but at least you've stopped referring to criticism of Lambert as moaning which is an improvement. If people were being negative for the sake of being negative then they wouldn't be able to substantiate their opinion with prevalent stats or actually just commenting on what they have seen before their eyes. If we had been playing consistently good football and achieving consistently good results and not being on a wretched run of form losing six in nine then you could state the above with confidence. As it is your just talking bollox. I think to blindly say either way we have improved is silly. For me our improvements in certain areas has been negated by decline in others. Our performances haven't been as good as the 2nd half of last season apart from the opening few games and Liverpool but points and clean sheets are better. I hope this season mirrors last season and we can kick on. The biggest measure of improvement for me between now and the end of the season is rectifying our home form and it's then you can really judge any improvement. Trying to judge mid season is a personal thing as stats can be used to prove any argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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