Game of Thrones (Spoilers)

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

He's playing her big time.

If he ends up on the pointy end of that dagger I'm not sure it's going to matter what playing he is doing.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Gilly.

Come on guys - probably the biggest reveal in GoT history and it was missed.

I'm paraphrasing here so be kind.

  Reveal hidden contents

Gilly: What's annulment mean? 

Sam: It's when you end a marriage.

Gilly: The maester (can't remember his name) says he that Ragger [sic] had an anullment so he could marry another.

That 3 line exchange legitimizes Jon as rightful owner of the iron throne

 

Yeah I must admit I totally missed it.

I heard the line, but I just thought it was her nearly telling Sam that John and Danaerys were related

[Seat68]

Ah I wasnt sure who they were on about, lots of characters and I lose track.

[StefanAVFC]

The pace is crazy. It's very easy to miss things now.

I mean, in the last episode, movement wise we had:

Tyrion - Somewhere in the Reach -> Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone

Jamie - Somewhere in the Reach ->  Kings Landing

Jon - Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

Davos - Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

The Seven Kingdoms are around 3000 miles from the Dorne -> The Wall.

Davos and Tyrion racked up hundreds of miles by boat in one episode.

And you're telling me that the army of the dead are marching that slowly?

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The pace is crazy. It's very easy to miss things now.

I mean, in the last episode, movement wise we had:

Tyrion - Somewhere in the Reach -> Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone

Jamie - Somewhere in the Reach ->  Kings Landing

Jon - Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

Davos - Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

The Seven Kingdoms are around 3000 miles from the Dorne -> The Wall.

Davos and Tyrion racked up hundreds of miles by boat in one episode.

And you're telling me that the army of the dead are marching that slowly?

It's insane.

But I think they've realised that to play it all out with the times syncing perfectly they'd need the show to go on until about 2035

I for one am much happier with this pace than the pace of previous seasons.

[mikeyp102]

21 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Gilly.

Come on guys - probably the biggest reveal in GoT history and it was missed.

I'm paraphrasing here so be kind.

  Hide contents

Gilly: What's annulment mean? 

Sam: It's when you end a marriage.

Gilly: The maester (can't remember his name) says he that Ragger [sic] had an anullment so he could marry another.

That 3 line exchange legitimizes Jon as rightful owner of the iron throne

 

You could argue Gendry has more claim as it was his family last on the throne, Cersei is in theory still part of that bloodline 

[tom_avfc]

47 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Gilly.

Come on guys - probably the biggest reveal in GoT history and it was missed.

I'm paraphrasing here so be kind.

  Reveal hidden contents

Gilly: What's annulment mean? 

Sam: It's when you end a marriage.

Gilly: The maester (can't remember his name) says he that Ragger [sic] had an anullment so he could marry another.

That 3 line exchange legitimizes Jon as rightful owner of the iron throne

 

Oh I was fully aware of the reveal. It was more the geeky side of me coming out to pick up on the Ginny/Gilly slip!

As pointed out above it's more nuanced than legitamizing Jon as rightful owner of the Iron Throne. There's plenty of other characters who will all claim one way or another that they are the rightful owner.

I hope it isn't as simple as a Daenerys/Jon alliance winning through at the end. Its been predicted for a long time by book readers and I'd like to think George RR Martin has something genuinely surprising up his sleeves for the end game.

I suppose part of the problem with him taking so long to write the books is that it gives people longer to come up with theories regarding the end game.

[villa4europe]

42 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The pace is crazy. It's very easy to miss things now.

I mean, in the last episode, movement wise we had:

Tyrion - Somewhere in the Reach -> Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone

Jamie - Somewhere in the Reach ->  Kings Landing

Jon - Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

Davos - Dragonstone -> Kings Landing -> Dragonstone -> Eastwatch

The Seven Kingdoms are around 3000 miles from the Dorne -> The Wall.

Davos and Tyrion racked up hundreds of miles by boat in one episode.

And you're telling me that the army of the dead are marching that slowly?

means that the cleganebowl "cant happen cos he's in the north and he's in the south" reasoning has gone out the window...assuming he doesnt die next week it could happen at any point

[StefanAVFC]

12 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I hope it isn't as simple as a Daenerys/Jon alliance winning through at the end. Its been predicted for a long time by book readers and I'd like to think George RR Martin has something genuinely surprising up his sleeves for the end game.

I think Jon/Dany partnership is a big red herring. Everyone has been speculating 'A song of ice and fire' is Jon/Dany, but I think with Jon's parentage, he is the song by himself.

[Stevo985]

15 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

Oh I was fully aware of the reveal. It was more the geeky side of me coming out to pick up on the Ginny/Gilly slip!

As pointed out above it's more nuanced than legitamizing Jon as rightful owner of the Iron Throne. There's plenty of other characters who will all claim one way or another that they are the rightful owner.

I hope it isn't as simple as a Daenerys/Jon alliance winning through at the end. Its been predicted for a long time by book readers and I'd like to think George RR Martin has something genuinely surprising up his sleeves for the end game.

I suppose part of the problem with him taking so long to write the books is that it gives people longer to come up with theories regarding the end game.

I guess the significance of this reveal though, was that if Danaerys thinks she is the rightful queen due to her bloodline, she'll have to concede that John is actually the rightful King on the back of this info.

[JB]

I think that there must be some sort of twist/development coming. The direction it's going seems a bit too predictable even as far it culminating in everyone teaming up to fight the White Walkers. I watched a video by that Australian guy (that may have even been linked to from here) that made a pretty convincing argument, based on the books and things Martin and the showrunners have said, for it not making any sense for the show to end in a simple good vs. evil war, or indeed a war of any sort given the number there have been already. 

Although if one of the spoilers I accidentally read is true:

Spoiler

that Daenarys will send Drogon north of the wall to try to wipe out the White Walkers but they will kill him and raise him as a wight-dragon

then it only seems to be going one way. 

[BOF]

25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I think Jon/Dany partnership is a big red herring. Everyone has been speculating 'A song of ice and fire' is Jon/Dany, but I think with Jon's parentage, he is the song by himself.

Regarding the final throne ...

Spoiler

I thought Jon/Dany/Tyrion were all ultimately going to be found to be part or full Targaryen (Tywin's 'you're not my son' being more literal than people thought) and there's a 3-part element to the throne? (and a dragon each).

 

 

 

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, JB said:

I think that there must be some sort of twist/development coming. The direction it's going seems a bit too predictable even as far it culminating in everyone teaming up to fight the White Walkers. I watched a video by that Australian guy (that may have even been linked to from here) that made a pretty convincing argument, based on the books and things Martin and the showrunners have said, for it not making any sense for the show to end in a simple good vs. evil war, or indeed a war of any sort given the number there have been already. 

Although if one of the spoilers I accidentally read is true:

  Hide contents

that Daenarys will send Drogon north of the wall to try to wipe out the White Walkers but they will kill him and raise him as a wight-dragon

then it only seems to be going one way. 

potentially proper proper spoiler -

Spoiler

what i saw was that the battle royal next week takes place on a frozen lake (spoiler nr 2) she sends all 3 of them to rescue them, the night king throws a spear through the neck of viserion who crashes through the ice, the WW then pull him out and the night king does his thing

spoiler nr 2

Spoiler

when they get in to the battle and someone dies (spoiler 3!) jon sends gendry to run back to east watch and send a raven to dany, in the trailer for next weeks episode you can see the hound swing gendry's war hammer

spoiler nr 3, if it actually happens it will be cool as **** so you might want to avoid...

Spoiler

thoros dies, attacked by a white walker polar bear

if all of that actually happens then i would say i know the end of the series too

[sne]

Not to get all Tolkien, The One Ring-Eagles-Mount Doom.

But wouldn't the dragons quite easily wipe out the Army of the Dead on their own?

Or does the Night King have one of those "Dragon controlling horns" I've heard about?

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Not to get all Tolkien, The One Ring-Eagles-Mount Doom.

But wouldn't the dragons quite easily wipe out the Army of the Dead on their own?

Or does the Night King have one of those "Dragon controlling horns" I've heard about?

Maybe. it would certainly help.

But the problem at the moment is Danaerys isn't committing to helping John Snow fight the dead.

[JB]

Ah **** I'm not reading any more 'possible' spoiler things because if that stuff actually happens then that's three genuine 'WOW' moments ruined haha.

[tom_avfc]

21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I guess the significance of this reveal though, was that if Danaerys thinks she is the rightful queen due to her bloodline, she'll have to concede that John is actually the rightful King on the back of this info.

Yes I'd agree with that so it's a decent reveal for that reason although there's a character in the books (not seen on show so far) who would potentially render this completely irrelevant anyway. I've put it in spoiler although the character may or may not turn up in the show anyway so who knows!

Spoiler

A character claiming to be Aegon Targaryen (second son of Rhaegar so Jon's elder half-brother) appears in disguise in the books having escaped from Kings Landing and not been killed as previously thought. Tyrion seems pretty convinced in the books and he has the visual characteristics of a Targaryen (white hair, purple eyes).

He may well have been cut from the series completely due to being largely irrelevant to the overall plot but he could potentially be being saved to provide a late twist to events in the show.

 

[PieFacE]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

The significance of Ginny's line of dialogue has only just been pointed out to me.

I thought it was just Sam almost finding out about John and Danaerys being related.

Is there more?

 

EDIT: Just caught up on thread. I didn't even realise that.

Edited August 15, 2017 by PieFacE

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, PieFacE said:

Is there more?

Already been posted. but yes

I'll spoiler it but it's not really a spoiler. But people might want to figure it out themselves.

Spoiler

 

John is a male, so he takes precedent over Danaerys in terms of rights to the throne. He's the king's, son's son. So he comes before the king's daughter.

However, the fact he was a bastard nullifies that. he has no claim.

 

But Gilly reading that his parents WERE married, but got an anullment, means that claim is back on, because he wasn't born out of wedlock.

Ergo, if Danaerys finds out who John is AND that the birth wasn't out of wedlock, she'll have to admit John is the rightful king.

 

 

[JB]

Pretty sure it's actually

Spoiler

Jon's dad annulled his marriage to his first wife so he could marry Jon's mom (Lyanna Stark).